Let’s Talk Tax Reform — reform that actually builds the American economy and creates new jobs.
And of course, those of us who have been around for the past 50 years know all too well that tax cuts do not allow wealth to trickle down. In fact, every statistic shows it has done the exact opposite — trickled upward at a phenomenal rate since 1980, making millionaires into billionaires.
What about this reform: Stop giving tax breaks to companies who ship American jobs overseas. The break I refer to is the allowable deduction for business expenses, which in essence pays companies to move business abroad by greatly reducing their taxes.
Not only do these companies leave American workers without jobs, they drastically reduce their current tax liabilities and can hide their foreign profits in Cayman Island accounts and avoid paying millions more that could be reducing our federal deficit, funding teachers or creating jobs rebuilding our national infrastructure.
This is what our Tea Party “patriots” and most regressives have worked hard to keep from being cut along with top tax rates on the wealthiest who have profited so richly since Reagan.
Now I ask you to think about the small Scandinavian nations who consistently top lists of overall health, education, income, happiness and faith in their government.
With far fewer natural resources and harsh winter conditions, these small countries are doing something right.
I wonder — could it be because they pay some of the highest tax rates in the world?
Could that be possible?
Rod Livdahl
Mesa
mnjcpa posted at 8:40 pm on Thu, Mar 21, 2013.
The IRS just released the 2010 information found on their website and there's no contextual problem when almost 50% pay nothing. The problem for the middle class really is the depreciation of the dollar, not tax rates. Ron Paul has it right about the Fed.
There's an article from the WSJ a few weeks ago on your last question that I'll locate & post for you.
Mike McClellan posted at 4:30 pm on Thu, Mar 21, 2013.
mn, I took a look at those same tables, and what I noted was this: Since 1998, the top 10% has never paid less than 65% of the total revenue, under the best years of President Bush and President Clinton. In fact, in 2005, under President Bush, the top ten percent paid more than they have under President Obama as a percentage of revenue received.
And you might know that during the Reagan years, the share of tax revenue paid by the top 10% grew each year, from 48% in 1981 to 56% in 1989.
The problem with all the numbers cited here and by you, as you know, is context. Neither of us give that revenue context. For example, has the share of taxable income earned grown for the top 10% and shrunk for most of the other 90%?
I don't know. But I bet you do.
mnjcpa posted at 2:38 pm on Thu, Mar 21, 2013.
Mike - I wouldn't tear you up about literature because you're an expert. Maybe afford the same courtesey 20 years experience might give me an insight in to tax that you or the column contributor neither understand or a study won't produce.
First of all 'tax cuts" and "trickle down" are overused terms. Cuts in relation to what? Last years rates? The middle class is hurting, but it's not from tax rates. Pretty lame argument when almost half of America pay ZERO tax. How can anyone in this group legitimately argue that their tax rates are unfair?
The middle class has been killed by the depreciation of the dollar - upwards of 95% over the last 15 years. You know yourself that you can't buy what you did even 10 years ago. This is a result of the massive, out of control spending and printing of money. The weekly IRS tax news I just got reported that in 2010, 70% of the tax revenue was received from only 10% of the taxpayers. This alone is enough to convince the average person. If you follow the trend of taxes paid over the last 50 years, the tax burden has increasingly shrunk to a smaller and smaller group of people.
Bluepoet posted at 10:45 am on Thu, Mar 21, 2013.
Hey, let's all start a business, and then...wait, who's left to hire?
Everytime the tax man cometh, we get the urge to merge...
Hedging our bets, until the hedge becomes an English garden maze...
too big to fail,
let's just bail...
Diversification=obfuscation of wealth
Capitalize upon it all, and when it starts to fall
declare
Chapter 11 (or was that seven?)
the economy of stealth.
-30-
Mike McClellan posted at 9:28 am on Thu, Mar 21, 2013.
Well sure, whatever you want to call me.
Meanwhile, you seem to believe that an article is the same as a study.
Of course.
And you still don't have a single study cited here.
But that's okay, because now you're taking a page from your buddy's playbook and credentializing instead of arguing.
It doesn't work for you, either.
mnjcpa posted at 9:21 pm on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
Even when I tell you I'm messing with you, deliberately sending you to the wrong site, and telling you that understanding tax is a career not a one off article, and you're still at it.
Petulant child is an understatement.
Mike McClellan posted at 8:12 pm on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
Hilarious "satire," mn -- seems you can't get your url's right.
But -- as usual -- neither you nor the professor/brother/book peddler/savior of miseducated children/bloviator can find a single study.
Find one on the Cato site that supports your view.
Talk about vacuous. At least I can copy a website url accurately.
And since you can't even cite a single study, not one, not even from Cato, your argument is empty.
mnjcpa posted at 7:59 pm on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
Glad you enjoyed the satire Rich, because toying with Mike's thinking is irresistable.
There's plenty of information to support tax cuts influence economics. If he had a minute of business experience, he would understand that too. Cato has great information on the subject, but of course it's conservative so Mike will disregard it. Try researching the number of businesses fleeing California, New York, and Illinois Mike and tell me excessive taxation doesn't destroy revenue and economics.
You don't just go to a website as a one-off look to form an opinion on taxes. You study the subject for a career. This same kind of vacuous thinking is the same kind of academic running America. No wonder we're in trouble.
Mike McClellan posted at 4:25 pm on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
Laffer, the guy who in 2006 said the American economy was "never in better shape," about a year before the housing fiasco, with the subprime area already in the toilet. But still bet the country was nowhere near a recession and would not fall into one.
Yeah, that Arther Laffer.
VofReason posted at 1:22 pm on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
I believe one is called good money after bad and the other is called trickle down economics. "Besides Arthur Laffler, who buys that?" This is rich. A President's Economic advisor is dismissed by a HS English teacher.
VofReason posted at 1:19 pm on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
Hey Mike speaking of studies, is there any studies that point to the massive amounts of money spent on education and the quality of students coming out of our High Schools. Additionally, are there any studies out there that show that people who start businesses generally hire people who have skills but evidently not the finances or fortitude to start businesses of their own. I believe we call this- check mate.
Bluepoet posted at 12:05 pm on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
If trickle down works so well, why are hip boots so popular?
(I guess it depends on what's trickling, and what needs shoveling)
Mike McClellan posted at 8:44 am on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
Ah, after calling someone a "moron," the learned professor (with what degree and from where? who knows, just take it on faith, like most of his ramblings) scolds another for "acting like a two-year-old" and "a petulant child."
And then goes on to cite "half a dozen" CATO institute studies, but fails to name just one.
Trickle down works? Besides Arthur Laffler, who buys that? Even Reagan's Budget Guy, David Stockmann, has ripped trickle down, rightly noting that 20 years of that theory has stagnated the middle class while building up the wealthy.
As a decline in real wages for middle class shows. But, in your brilliant "grasp of dialectic," you'll no doubt call that cherry picking.
So cherry pick one, just one reputable study that shows trickle down works.
Meanwhile, the only sound is crickets chirping as your silence is matched only by your Sancho Panza.
Rich posted at 7:49 am on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
Mike,
You could stop acting like a two year old. The Cato Institute alone has half a dozen studies like that. Every Libertarian and Conservative think tank has at least one. Your grasp of dialectic is tenuous at best. You need to answer a point with another point, not a comment like "I'd suggest that anyone who reduces Gatsby to "an attack on the wealthy" also believes A River Runs Through It is just about fly fishing." In the first place no one reduced Gatsby to that, and Gatsby is an attack on the wealthy, it's just more than that. You could make a point about what else it has to teach instead of react like a petulant child.
Trickle down works, in fact has worked at least since the chief caveman couldn't eat the whole mastodon and the chunks trickled down.
Also your view of education is a bit warped for a former teacher. If my PhD is worthless, as you imply, what good is a HS degree?
Mike McClellan posted at 5:39 am on Wed, Mar 20, 2013.
As to "moron," I'd suggest that anyone who reduces Gatsby to "an attack on the wealthy" also believes A River Runs Through It is just about fly fishing.
As to the Birding and Armenian sites, I have a feeling -- just a feeling -- that mnjcpa meant "com." and not "org." But then again, maybe the Birding Society HAS created a study showing the positive effects of low taxes on North American birding.
As to the others, it's a game of hide and seek. But mnjcpa can't seem to seek any one single study. Nor can you.
Maybe some thoughtful prayer, Brother Rich, combined with whatever your PhD is, Dr. Rich, combined with whatever other credentials you trot out (saving miseducated children seems to be the latest) combined with your spectacular self-esteem that you seem obsessed with displaying as a substitute for argument will lead to a single study to support mjncpa's view.
I doubt it, though.
Rich posted at 8:34 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
As to mjncpa's "numerous studies," the first one is not a study at all but the first of multiple pages on a variety of topics. Which one should we look at, mjncpa?
All of them Moron, that's how he reached his conclusions
The second one isn't a study, either, but the home page of the American Institute of CPA's. Nothing on that page is a study to support your claims.
But the site does and in real situations, not your speculations.
The third one is the home page of the American Birding Association.
This one I didn't get either, but I suspect he is satirizing you.
The last is the home page of the Armenian Missionary Association of America.
Again, I think he's making fun of you on my end it's a good laugh.
And I am a Lay Brother of a religious order. I do know you, as a teacher, hurt at least one little girl, and I repaired your damage. How many didn't find someone like me?
Mike McClellan posted at 8:08 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
As to mjncpa's "numerous studies," the first one is not a study at all but the first of multiple pages on a variety of topics. Which one should we look at, mjncpa?
The second one isn't a study, either, but the home page of the American Institute of CPA's. Nothing on that page is a study to support your claims.
The third one is the home page of the American Birding Association.
The last is the home page of the Armenian Missionary Association of America.
Maybe your PhD compadre can cook up a study to support your claims.
But you have yet to give a single specific study to support your claim. Not one.
Mike McClellan posted at 7:41 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
Interesting, Brother, er, Dr. Rich, since I never had the pleasure of teaching Merchant.
mnjcpa posted at 7:12 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
The information I’m referring to is what I study every day (see below). Probably wouldn’t come across this kind of information in the school cafeteria Mike. We’re deep into middle market businesses, and the drops in market values of these businesses is well known. Feedback has been overwhelmingly due to taxes and regulation. Follow these thinkers for 20 years rather than requiring a cherry picked article to make your point….
American Banking Association http://www.aba.com/Search-Center/pages/results.aspx?k=tax%20cuts
American Institute of CPA’s www.aicpa.org
Tax Section – American Bar Association www.aba.org
Alliance of Merger & Acquisitions: www.amaa.org
Rich posted at 7:07 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
Studies Mike? Used to participate in them. They work this way, someone comes to a university and offers to fund a study. A bunch of experts (my PhD qualified me) get together to "prove" the point that the person (group, organization, corporation) who is funding the study wants proven. This usually takes a few years, and several requests for more funds. The additional funds eventually result in the fact that what the funding entity wanted 'proven' is. It is a little known form of fantastic literature.
As to Gatsby, we've already played that game. It is a beautiful work of art. It can't be taught and holds no life lessons. Teaching Fitzgerald's style is rather like teaching kids to forge, and has as much to do with critical thinking as a Bugs Bunny cartoon. As I said, John Carter, Tarzan, Paso Por Aqui hold more of American aspirations, thought processes and might be useful in critical thinking. Teaching it to high school students can only be indoctrination, they are too young to know and feel the adult aspirations and sexual tension that makes it one of the most beautiful creations on Earth.
As to what you did in class, I have an idea because one young lady you taught and my son went to the same college in California. After the first year I drove them up and back. Being from Arizona they were thrown together in a small college. The reason I use Shylock is that she thought he was the merchant of Venice. I showed her Edgar Rice Burroughs, Eugene Manlove Rhodes. Obviously, Mike, you aren't Academy Award material.
Mike McClellan posted at 4:49 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
Well, mnjcpa, here's what your wrote earlier today:
"I have numerous studies to the contrary."
I asked for one reputable one.
Your response: "You can't cherry pick a statistic and hold that out as truth Mike. With taxes, you have to view it from a historical perspective, the timeline, changes to the law. That I'm afraid is much more than a column can contribute."
I'm not asking for you to copy and past one of your "numerous studies." I just asked you to cite one.
You didn't.
Or couldn't.
mnjcpa posted at 4:18 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
You can't cherry pick a statistic and hold that out as truth Mike. With taxes, you have to view it from a historical perspective, the timeline, changes to the law. That I'm afraid is much more than a column can contribute.
Try a fact that we're in an economy that's sputtering Mike. There's literally zero reason for someone to start a business in the US with the economic policies coming out of Washington. Why would you when in some states upwards of 60% of your income is taken? Spending is the problem and with that we have zero leadership.
Mike McClellan posted at 1:38 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
Cite one reputable study that shows what you claim, mjncpa. One.
VofReason posted at 1:19 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
I will give it to Rod, with a simpleton editorial he hatched 33 (make it 34) comments. Guess it is the same reason people slow down for car wrecks. If trickle down ,people who make and have money building businesses to employ people doesn't work, the point is that Government redistribution to poor people does? This may seem strange to some, but many poor people are poor for a reason: didn't see higher education as important and/or made bad decisions. "The poor will always be amoung us." That doesn't make them bad or deserving of good treatment, but it also doesn't mean if you give them money it will make them rich.
Mike McClellan posted at 1:18 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
A. I guess, then, that from your commentary above, you've met a sufficient number of teachers to draw a conclusion about all teachers
B. I guess that in your profession, personal opinion becomes a part of your professional life. As a CPA, do you expound upon your political views with your clients as a typical part of your day, do your clients pay to listen to your political views?
Because you assume that because I have -- for Arizona, anyhow -- liberal views, that somehow that means I "indoctrinate" my kids with those views.
And "Brother Rich," as you call him, assumes I do as well.
Both, of course, never having seen me teach nor ever had any of your kids in my classes.
mnjcpa posted at 1:16 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
Want me to stay on point with 'trickle down'. Since I've been in the tax business for over 20 years, I'll comment. The commenter is flat wrong about tax cuts.
Not sure where he's getting his information but it sounds like another lame MSM argument against the Tea Party. I have numerous studies to the contrary. Still don't believe me? All you need to do is look at the Obama economy and the impact of tax and regulations on small businesses. It's nothing short of stifling.
Finally, tax reform. How about EVERYONE pay income taxes? Agreed that businesses shouldn't get credit for shipping jobs overseas. But while we're at it, quit using the Tax Code to solve social issues. Eliminate the Earned Income Credit which paid out last year alone over $7 billion to people that are here illegally. And farmer's subsidies.
The Tea Party has tax reform spot on right.
mnjcpa posted at 12:52 pm on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
Mike - The positions you take in your comments portray the attitude quite well and precisely why we took the financial hit to make sure young minds in our family weren't indoctrinated with liberal mush. Never mentioned your classroom but haven't met a teacher yet that doesn't think the same way.
Mike McClellan posted at 8:00 am on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
Anyone who thinks Gatsby is simply an attack on wealthy is a simpleton's expert.
Of course, if you can't defend trickle down, it' unsurprising that you'd change the subject.
By the way, rich and mnjcpa, how many of your kids DID I teach, since you two seem to know what went on in my classroom?
mnjcpa posted at 7:47 am on Tue, Mar 19, 2013.
Tell me about it brother Rich.....your example is EXACTLY why our family pulled our kids from public schools 15+ years ago. GOVERNMENT education produces teachers like Mike so indoctrinated they don't even follow what you mean. Success = evil and everyone gets a trophy whether they deserve it or not. Best decision our family ever made.
And Sock - you're spot on. Outsourced jobs are really simple to explain. Americans like Willie are made multi-millionaires (any federal or private labor union employee) in their early 50's. Highest corporate tax rate in the world. Both are a formula for businesses to KEEP the jobs OUT of the US.
sockratties posted at 11:38 pm on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
truthless… don’t be so cranky. People have to keep telling you what you should be able to figure out yourself. China is, at this time, about where we were during the 19th and early 20th centuries. At that time the industrial revolution and expansion was just taking off. When Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt and others were ramping up, hardware manufacturing, textiles, mining and jobs that were yet to be done by automation or assembly were done at poverty wages with no benefits or guarantees. Sweat shops and child labor were the norm. Mechanization and automation finally increased efficiency to the point that there was some profit left over for the workers to share. China and India are in their industrial ages now and will eventually lose those jobs to African and underdeveloped countries where there is a large unskilled workforce. It’s probably better to spend all day assembling Mattel toys in China than being beaten to death by a war lord for not finding enough blood diamonds in some African country. It’s all about the state of one’s country at a given time.
Jobs are not outsourced directly. Jobs are sold by bid and handled by agents. If an American company is the best and lowest bidder, they could get the bids. We just can’t be competitive in some areas for the reasons I stated. We have to regain competiveness where innovation, engineering and technology will prevail because those are our strengths. People aren’t willing to pay 10 times the price for a plastic glass from Walmart just because it says Made in USA on the bottom or we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Rich posted at 7:01 pm on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
Daddy, tell me about it. Had to teach my kids long division. Fully funded education means a lot of indoctrination... read The Great Gatsby" and understand how bad rich people are. And do that before you learn Arithmetic, or English. They never taught 'John Carter of Mars', or 'Paso Por Aqui' what made America great. Ask Mike to be honest, does he know who wrote either? Our kids think Shylock is the merchant of Venice. That's where 'fully funded' education takes you.
Daddyburger posted at 5:06 pm on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
Oh yes Mike:
Fully funded schools, teacher salaries going up--the 80's were really good for educators. Student test scores going down--oops!
mnjcpa posted at 4:26 pm on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
I admire people that put their own money at risk (business owners), and do everything in my power to protect them. These people don't get `luck` bestowed on them.
Someone that thinks it's normal to retire in their early 50's that someone else pays for is hardly normal. Your `normal` is what has sent jobs overseas.
From my view, the Democrats get nothing right. Bought in to that whole `we protect the little guy' nonsense? Democrats today are radical, extremists backed up by a complicit media. The only thing wrong with the Republicans are the consultants that they're listening to.
Arizona Willie posted at 2:59 pm on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
mnjcpa: you said " AZWillie - in response to your comment of 8:21 am on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
I'm confused. Why, then, do you support the Democrat party that encourages the illegal movement? Fortunately, you do understand that we can't afford the impact the illegal citizen has on America. I'm just amazed that you feel the way you do and you still support the party of "bring everyone in, let the taxpayer pay for it!" "
----------
Well like most human beings, I'm a bag of skin filled with contradictions. :)
I don't support the Democratic Party " at all costs in all things ".
The Democrats get MOST things right and a FEW things wrong.
The Republicans get MOST things wrong and a FEW things right.
I actually voted Republican once. I voted for Goldwater because he was the only one telling the truth about Vietnam.
BTW I do NOT think it is normal to retire at 50. And I didn't ... I was 54 :)
I have ALWAYS said I was LUCKY.
You should see a shrink about your problem with people who get lucky.
It is puzzling because you admire people who get lucky and maybe invent something and get wealthy.
So I got lucky ... deal with it.
VofReason posted at 2:37 pm on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
Hmmm. Let's look at Sweeden. 9.5 million people versus 320 million in the US. "The largest foreign group is from Finland (170,000 people)". Yes, Finland is kinda just like having most of your immigration coming from Mexico. Other than the fact that most from Mexico are uneducated, low skilled and come from a country where bribery of public officials is common place. Yes Rod, if you can figure out a way to clip off 310 million people and have your immigration "problem" come from (gasp) Finland, things do get a little easier. Their is a right winger term for this "duh".
VofReason posted at 2:29 pm on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
So really, a dollar in the government is better than a dollar in my pocket Rod? Or is this logic only applied to "they" evil rich and evil (gasp) corporations? I still get confused when I hear that the government getting our money is the best way to make us all have a better economy, employment, etc. Seems to me, in almost every example, the government is inefficient and spends much more money to do things than the private sector. That said, how does taking money from the productive efficient sector and putting it into the unproductive and inefficient sector improve the economy? Or for that matter increase jobs that have to be paid for at usually higher salaries by taking money out of the productive sector?
mnjcpa posted at 12:07 pm on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
AZWillie - in response to your comment of 8:21 am on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
I'm confused. Why, then, do you support the Democrat party that encourages the illegal movement? Fortunately, you do understand that we can't afford the impact the illegal citizen has on America. I'm just amazed that you feel the way you do and you still support the party of "bring everyone in, let the taxpayer pay for it!"
mnjcpa posted at 8:25 am on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
The reason `jobs` aren't staying in the US is really simple.
The American middle market was built by servicing large, usually public, US companies. This run of good fortune really started in the 1950s, and lasted until 9/11 or so. During this period the behemoths built out their footprints in America and forced their middle market supply chain to service them. Then the big guys became multinationals, but did not take their American vendors with them.
When you have the HIGHEST corporate tax rate in the WORLD, and people like Wilie that thinking it's normal to retire in your early 50's - is it any wonder the jobs STAY overseas? You simply CAN'T pay out multi-million dollar pensions over a lifetime - amounting to millions - and stay in business. Change the tax rates and unrealistic compensation to Americans like Willie if you want change.
Oh, and it would help if you actually had a LEADER in the White House.
Arizona Willie posted at 7:47 am on Mon, Mar 18, 2013.
chatmanduu002: you said " I believe it's my money, the liberal/progressive/socialists believe it's the governments money. "
No ... we KNOW it's the government's money once you have paid your tax the money no longer belongs to you as an individual.
If you think it is your money --- take it back.
truth posted at 2:35 pm on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
Sockrotties, are you saying that 3.4 million slave job working for .50 cents a hour in China where you can be put in their work house for up to 5 years without ever being convicted of a crime making clothing for every major apparel company in the U.S.. Or 400,000 assembling U.S. electronics for $1.50 a hour where there is no environmental protection has nothing to do with jobs being outsourced? Is this what you are saying?
ANSWER THESE FEW QUESTIONS
Rich posted at 1:37 pm on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
"When the wealthy have money they sit on it or perhaps buy a new mansion or yacht."
Actually, yachts and mansions are very high maintenance propositions that add more to the economy than most businesses at the investment they represent, and they don't sit on money, they invest it to make a profit. You make it sound like they stuff it in their mattress. Which is about the only thing they could do that would make your post come with a million miles of close.
Mike- you do realize you proved my point, you attributed it to other causes, but if we actually knew the causality, we'd do it again and we could quit discussing the subject.
Mike McClellan posted at 11:35 am on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
Yep, teaching in az early in the 80's WAS good ... A democrat as gov and a leg that actually funded Ed according to its constitutional mandate.
Meanwhile, studies that contradict your claim are "unreliable." So unreliable that republicans tied to suppress the release.
Of course.
Arizona Willie posted at 9:24 am on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
onerebel: a rising tide floats all boats.
When the average man has his bills paid and a bit left over, he tends to spend it.
When people spend money, retail store owners make money, the wholesalers make money, the jobbers make money, the factories make money and eventually hire more and expand.
When the wealthy have money they sit on it or perhaps buy a new mansion or yacht.
When taxes on the wealthy were higher they had incentive to expand their business and start new ones in order to keep the money coming in at a high rate.
With low taxes the wealthy sit on piles of money and have no incentive to expand their business or start a new one.
It's the same as the Republican argument against people getting unemployment. They claim that it takes away peoples incentive to get another job.
The same goes for the wealthy. With high taxes they have incentive to expand and start new businesses in order to keep their lifestyle. With low taxes they have no incentives.
Rich posted at 9:10 am on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
"Xenophobia is another word for racism."
No it isn't. It is a fear of foreigners, usually intense and irrational. You certainly appear intense, Willy, and to attribute the traits of a few people to all of them is certainly irrational.
Arizona Willie posted at 8:21 am on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
socratties: you said " I don't share the same xenophobia as you and leon. "
Xenophobia is another word for racism.
I can't speak for Leon but I don't have xenophopia. I have a problem with people who enter this country illegally and take jobs that should go to legal workers and who will steal my identity and run up bills on my credit if they get the chance.
I have a problem with people who jump over our borders to have a baby and make it an American citizen and then get Social Services for their American baby which they spend on themselves. A woman from south of the border can do that 3 or 4 times and have enough to live well on in her native country.
Many of these women have relatives who are here legally and they file for benefits using the legal relatives address and when the check comes either the relative cashes it and sends the money to her via Western Union or she just sends her the check if she has a way of cashing them in that country. At one time the government would actually send the benefits to them in the other country but I think they got that stopped.
Money being sent home is Mexico's 2nd biggest source of income behind their oil sales. The government ENCOURAGES people to leave and come here illegally and send money home.
Rich posted at 6:54 am on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
About all that tells you is that the CBO and Congressional Research Service are unreliable. This is a case where the period of history was experienced by people who are alive today, and even McClellan admits it got better, the 'reports' are a bit ridiculous. You can actually prove pretty much anything you set out to prove. Lord Kelvin once proved that heavier than air flight was a physical impossibility. None of which trumps 'been there, done that.' And partisan denials of the plain facts that a great number of people lived through is really a bit silly, no matter who wrote the report.
Mike McClellan posted at 5:50 am on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
There is no study that shows trickle down promotes economic growth. In fact, both the CBO and Congressional Research Service released reports saying that trickle down has never produced what Republicans claim, but has contributed to growing income disparity.
When the CBO was ready to release its report, Cong. Republicans tried to suppress its release.
Rich posted at 5:18 am on Sun, Mar 17, 2013.
"I wonder — could it be because they pay some of the highest tax rates in the world?"
If you ask them, no. Since I do business in Sweden, I asked. They are far from the happy campers you are portraying them. Near 8% unemployment, healthcare that fails to operate outside of major metro areas, the sale of their heritage to China (Saab and Volvo) and France (liquor companies), it isn't the taxes that fuel them but the sale of their assets. Gas there runs about $3. a liter and strangles local business.
When you want to make some psycho ceramic point as Rod is here, with nothing but a OCD over valued idea behind it, the 'other man's grass is always greener.' But that doesn't make it so.
onerebel posted at 11:21 pm on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
Perhaps Rod agrees with Nancy Pelosi's trickle up idea. That giving people more unemployment payments is the best stimulus the economy can get? If that's the case Rod put us ALL on unemployment and watch the economy grow. As for the Scandinavian countries great economies, they drill for THEIR oil and get oil royalties that pay for the good life, At least for the next twenty years when their oil is expected to run dry!
sockratties posted at 7:45 pm on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
truth… you refer to retail jobs at Wall Mart but many of those are here in the U.S. And competitive jobs of the future will be in technical fields. The jobs that have gone to other countries aren’t coming back because industry evolves. We aren’t hunters and gatherers anymore, or farmers or assemblers. Other countries are at that point in their development, including urbanization and education. This is the “information age” and to be competitive we have to have the infrastructure and skills required.
After Steve Jobs passed away the new CEO was asked if Apple would be planning to make future products in the U.S. He replied that, sad as it is, the facilities, equipment, and skills were not available here in the near future.
Before I retired I worked in the semiconductor manufacturing sector here in Arizona. We often had to bring people here from Europe, Korea, and Taiwan to have enough skilled workers. It was very hard to hire people out of college because of the two or three years before they have developed adequate experience to work on multi-million dollar systems.
It requires major investment for a company to set up a facility and hire people; several billion dollars. Companies have to make those investments where a workforce will be available. Silicon corridors such as in California’s Bay Area or Portland, Oregon are too expensive to build in and for people to live in. Other countries make these choices easy with incentives and a well trained work force. We don’t do that here and instead raise tuitions and kick out foreigners as soon as they graduate.
We have plenty of people who can work at discount stores. That’s why we have high unemployment. A degree in humanities, law, philosophy or art may be marketable once we have a techno savvy work force but at this time. We are not competitive in a global economy. Complaining about that fact won’t solve our problem. Tariffs and taxes will only make it worse. We are allowing our workforce to become a service industry of food servers, maids, nursing assistants, credit checkers and clerks so those industries will flock here. You may have a Bachelor of Science Degree in semiconductor manufacturing but until you entice manufacturers to build here the jobs will be overseas. Americans, by the way, are finding jobs in India.
chatmandu002 posted at 2:00 pm on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
I believe it's my money, the liberal/progressive/socialists believe it's the governments money.
truth posted at 1:51 pm on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
Sockratties, what is you point? The U.S last year had 1.3 million graduates and 60 percent can't find full time work in their fields, and are taking part time jobs or working in fast food or Wall Mart. Next you will say their degree has to be in the right field, engineering etc, but if we have 1.3 million graduates in the engineering field their will be so many that they will not be able to find work. Are you saying that if you want to earn a living wage you should have a bachelor degree in just a few fields? Why don't you explain how higher education is the answer, and do be explicit, not general comments, I am waiting for your response. How will this effect Wall Mart, one of the largest and most profitable companies in the world? Education is important, but not the only answer. What about 3.4 million slave labor jobs in garment factories in China or 400,000 jobs in China making American electronics? And lets not forget exporting other U.S jobs.
sockratties posted at 11:09 am on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
truth... your cut-and-paste from the McCook Daily Gazette chooses specific data to make assumptions. Productivity in today's world actually results from automation and process improvement. For example a vegetable cannery in California used to have 400 workers when I worked there during summer and went to college the rest of the year. Now all the machinery is automated and about 30 workers get the same job done. Even the fork lift drivers have been replaced by moving belts. There are, however, technicians making good money to keep those machines running. You can't blame the canning companies for not using antiquated methods. Education is the answer if we wish to remain competitive and earn a living wage.
Accuracy posted at 10:54 am on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
‘Trickle down’ a joke . . No, “Let’s Talk Tax Reform”
President Barack Obama and Senate began meetings on tax reform – the type of policy that would seem tailor-made for vulnerable Democrats. Obama and Republicans are closer together on the need to revamp corporate taxes, with both sides backing a lower top rate. After Obama reaffirmed his commitment to entitlement reform in a meeting with Senate Republicans Thursday, he assured House Democrats he won't slash Social Security and Medicare.
Republicans have long argued that entitlement reform is the best way to tackle the budget deficits long term. But any tax reform bill that ultimately clears the Senate is going to require significant buy-in from both parties to provide all sides with political cover.
All of this comes ahead of a March 27 deadline that could mean a government shutdown and a debt-ceiling battle in May.
truth posted at 9:51 am on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
Since 2008, corporate earnings have risen 20% a year, while workers salaries have been flat. Even when companies expand they don't hire new workers. United Technologies, for example, has raised it's annual revenues by $15 billion since 2005, but cut 4,000 workers last year and will cut 3,000 more this year. Ah, productivity-a fine-sounding word. In practice, it means 11-hour days, working on weekends, skipping vacations. And practice says a new survey by the American Psychological Association, it means that more than half the U.S. Feels underpaid and unappreciated, and a third suffers symptoms of chronic, work-induced stress. But how can a worker bee complain? Millions of unemployed Americans would gladly take their jobs for less pay and so would millions of telecommuters in India, China, and Brazil. So let us briefly pause to marvel at the results of our productivity, and get back to work. There is more honey to be made.
sockratties posted at 9:12 am on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
AZW... I didn't compare foreign born with illegal, you made that assumption. I compared foreign born with foreign born... 14.3% to 12.6%. Statistics indicate that our burden is no greater than that of European countries, although related to different dynamics and demography. I don't share the same xenophobia as you and leon.
Arizona Willie posted at 7:41 am on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
socratties: you said that 14.3% of the inhabitants of Sweden were foreign-born.
There is a VAST difference between being foreign-born and being an illegal alien.
Trying to quote a statistic about the percentage of foreign-born to counter his statement about them not having 20,000,000 illegal aliens does not compute.
You are comparing apples to rotten apples. They can be perfectly legally present in a country and be foreign born. My / our objection to the invasion is that they have entered illegally and they work illegally and take jobs and benefits from legal workers and they, usually, commit identity theft in order to work. Many also run up debt on someone else's name using the stolen identity.
Foreign born workers are not necessarily illegals.
sockratties posted at 6:40 am on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
leon… Do some research before engaging typing fingers.
You said: “The Scandinavian Countries don't have 20,000,000 Illegal Aliens from Mexico”
Fact: As of 2010, 14.3% of the inhabitants in Sweden were foreign-born, Norway 13.1 %, U.S. 12.6%.
You said: “The Scandinavians have one "Official" language...you either learn it or you leave.”
Fact: Sweden has five minority languages, Finnish, Tornedals Finnish, Sami, Yiddish, and Romany. Swedish is considered the national language, but not the official one. Swedes learn English in school.
You said: “The Scandinavians are homogenous....that's ..."ALL WHITE"....to you Rod.
Fact: Minorities in Scandinavian countries include Assyrians, Arabs, Bosnians, Finns, Somalis, Kurds, Romani, Turks, Serbs and Albanians. Just because you don’t know what’s going on in the world, leon, doesn’t mean it’s not out there.
You said: “The Scandinavians manufacture there own good and buy their own goods because their tariffs on foreign made goods are.........."SKY HIGH".
Fact: Unemployment in Sweden is 7.8%. Sweden manufactures paper, drugs, iron and steel. Their auto companies now belong to the Chinese Zhejiang Geely (Volvo) and Saab now belongs to Dutch Spyker Cars who bought it from GM. Sweden imports from all of the EU and from China.
You said: “The Scandinavian Education System is one of the best in the World. Their teachers = teach....not...."mentor".
Fact: Swedish 15-years-old pupils have the 22nd highest average score in the PISA assessments, being neither significantly higher nor lower than the OECD average.
You said: “The Scandinavians have a wealth of natural resources.”
Fact: Forests, mining and fishing are about all.
You said: “There are no ...'SOUTH MESA BARRIOS" ....or......"PHOENIX BLACK GHETTOS"....in Scandinavia....Rod.
Fact: If what you say is true, leon, you couldn’t live there.
You said: “EVERYONE TALKS THE SAME LANGUAGE, READS THE SAME LANGUAGE, WATCH TELEVISION IN THE SAME LANGUAGE....AND EVERYBODY LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE...........
Fact: And pays 45% taxes, is a totally socialist state, and provides government welfare and health care to those you hate!
Again… another leon load of hogwash!
sockratties posted at 6:38 am on Sat, Mar 16, 2013.
Too bad someone reported leons comment because now it's gone. I'm going to comment on it anyway.
Wisaz posted at 11:44 pm on Fri, Mar 15, 2013.
Tax cuts do not allow wealth to trickle down? They don’t need to because the wealth never trickled up. How do tax increases allow wealth to trickle down? Trickle up and trickle down are about smoke and mirrors and an attempt to confuse. Tax cuts mean you keep more of your own money to spend as you wish. If someone gets rich because part of what I spend goes to him, I have no quarrel with that. In America, you are allowed to get rich selling what people want to buy.
I question your statistics about the Scandinavian nations topping the list in overall income, education, happiness and faith in government – first of all who compiles those lists and how honest are they; and secondly, VERY FEW people I talk to are happy to pay higher taxes (you should hear the language!) and high taxes definitely do not increase your overall income (high taxes cut deep), or affect any faith in government. The US pays about the highest per capita per student for education and this has not helped our education system one bit.
We have tried taxing and spending for years. Has not worked. Time to try tax cutting and less government spending.