Raise taxes on the wealthy. Cut spending on the poor and middle class. The battle rages on.
But there are some statistics that will clearly show why the “War against the Middle Class” has already been fought and the middle class lost big time!
Let’s start will the huge tax break the top 1-to-4 percent get on their paychecks that the other 96 percent of us don’t.
I’m talking payroll taxes, specifically the 6.2 percent Social Security tax (current 4.2 percent payroll tax holiday exempted) that is capped at around $110,000.
Because the wealthy are not required to pay any S.S. tax above that limit, their total tax rates drop dramatically as their incomes rise!
When added to the sweet 15 percent capital gains tax rate that so many of the 1 and 2 percent use to manipulate their tax rates below their cleaning staff, cooks and gardeners, the total loss in revenues to our government has been monstrous!
For example, those earning $250,000 see their overall S.S. tax rate drop to only 2.7 percent. Those earning a million dollar salary are paying a rate of only 0.7 percent.
Jump up to a $5 million income and their payroll tax rate is down to a mere 0.1 percent
You think these “well-to-do’ers” will forget about their S.S. checks at 65? Think again — there are around 2,400 millionaires collecting unemployment insurance today! There are even children of multi-millionaires collecting Social Security survivor benefits till they turn 18.
If we want economic growth and Social Security stabilized, we must end this war on the middle class!
Rod Livdahl
MESA
mesateacher posted at 6:21 am on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
When will this stupid, childish and uninformed class envy stop? Well, as long as Obama is in office it won't. That's how he won: using class envy and scaring people. Rod states
When added to the sweet 15 percent capital gains tax rate that so many of the 1 and 2 percent use to manipulate their tax rates below their cleaning staff...
I am definitely middle class, yet I, too, pay only 15% on my capital gains. That's not wrong and it's not wrong for the wealthy. They, and I, have already paid 33% or more on income. What's left I invested and get to pay taxes again. You call that fair? Let me tell you what would be fair: EVERYONE - I don't care what your income is - pays something. The 49% of the country who pay NO Federal income tax are the ones who are manipulating the system! For several years there's been a proposal called FAIR TAX. That's what we need. Everyone should pay something. I pay enough taxes, both on my meagre income and on my investment income. I want the freeloaders to pay, too.
Rich posted at 6:37 am on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
The problem is that almost half pay nothing and all but of couple percent of them less than nothing, in that they take, don't give. Almost half don't pay their 'fair share' because they don't pay any share at all. And they just elected themselves a President who wants to keep it that way. It isn't a democracy anymore, it's a kleptocracy.
downtownresident posted at 7:17 am on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
mesateacher,
You're a hypocrite!
What about your, "stupid, childish and uninformed class envy " of those, "49% of the country who pay NO Federal income tax "? You are repeating a Romneyism.
bubba posted at 7:21 am on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
mesateacher & Rich ...Let's all have another round of the Tea flavored Kool Aid.
chatmandu002 posted at 12:06 pm on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
The class war continues with the liberal/progressive/socialists calling for more taxes on the rich and greedy to pay for the free ride of the poor and middle class. Obama, the democrats along with the liberal/progressive/socialists want everyone to become a part of the "Dependent Class" with the big government controlling our lives from cradle to grave. The only way they can do this is to confiscate the wealth of the rich (anyone making more than $200K) to pay for the grand entitlement and dependency programs of our socialist government. When the wealth of the rich is gone then anyone making anything will be the next victim of this grand socialism. I'm afraid we are past the point of saving our country with 50+% of the voters becoming takers instead of makers.
bubba posted at 1:19 pm on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
The "class war" between the middle class and the wealthy was begun by the wealthy under the Reagan policy of "Trickle Down Economics". It's been thirty years now, and the wealth of the working middle class has been distributed to the wealthy "job creators who have taken $25-32 TRILLION out of this economy and deposited it in Cayman bank accounts. They are the true "free riders" of this nation. Corporate Welfare Frauds that have raided Social Security and tell the middle class that we need to lower our expectations of retirement. Iceland jailed the banksters and bailed our their citizens, that is why their economy is recovering faster than U S or the rest of Europe. The Koch Bros. exposed. The tea they have been serving up to naive "patriots" have poisoned them and their ability to see the reality in front of them.
truth posted at 3:37 pm on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
Lets not forget Apple pays 1.9 % tax and G.E pays 7.9 % tax. on billions of dollars.
Mike McClellan posted at 7:07 pm on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
This "half pay nothing " b.s. has to stop -- those folks pay local taxes, property taxes, gas taxes, and other taxes. And they pay a payroll tax that -- proportionately -- hits them much, much harder than the so-called "job creators."
These "half pay nothing" folks don't have the powerful lobbyists that the so-called job creators have, the ones who massage, intimidate, and cajole our legislators to create the most favorable tax loopholes that have allowed the job creators to flourish while the middle class remains stagnant.
PatrioticPerson posted at 10:13 pm on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
Rod, There is a desire to raise taxes on the wealthy. I thought there was a desire to reduce government spending but I didn't think it was directed at "the poor and middle class".
There is NO TAX BREAK for the top 4% or anyone for that matter. Benefits (Entitlements) are based on what you pay into SS. The more you pay in the more you are eligible to receive. It is capped at $110,000 income as you stated but the amount that can be received monthly is also capped at $2,346 as of 2010. Yes it is true that their overall tax rate changes when they hit the $110,000 limit but their benefits received does not increase as their wages increase.
EVERYONE is eligible for the 15% capital gains tax (also for dividends) not just the wealthy as you imply. Saving and investing for the future is a wise and prudent thing to do. And I am pretty sure the money they made to buy those investments was taxed at a much higher rate.
Abstract01 posted at 10:20 pm on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
Bubba, Seems to me that it is the federal government entitlement programs that are raiding the Social Security funds--been going on for over 60 years.
Corporations raid the business-sponsored retirement investments, and Union shadow leadership mis-manages the union member funds.
Meanwhile, the Wall Street investment bankers rake off the profits for their bonuses.
All we need to do is get rid of the overlords, and we'll all be rich and happy, right?
PatrioticPerson posted at 10:28 pm on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
Rod (continued),
Most people (you might be the exception) when doing their taxes want to pay only what they have to pay. I don't know of anyone who does their taxes or has them done that says "I want a LOWER TAX RATE than my cleaning staff, cooks and gardner". They say "find all the deduction that are allowed by law so I only pay what I have to pay". There is NO LOSS OF REVENUE if you are paying what the tax laws require you to pay. And I do my own cleaning, cooking and gardening.
PatrioticPerson posted at 6:23 am on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Rod,
Social Security is nothing more than a supplemental insurance policy for retirement income. With many problems:
The government sets the premiums based on wages.
The government sets the benefits.
The government says it's MANDITORY to participate.
The government increases benefits without sufficiently increasing premiums.
The government didn't make the proper adjustments for the increased life expectancy.
The government added recipients who did not/do not pay any premiums.
Your premise that the SS Tax is a war on the middle class just doesn't hold water.
PatrioticPerson posted at 6:30 am on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
I'm not even going to touch the "well-to-do'ers" paragraph.
Arizona Willie posted at 8:27 am on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Abstract101, union's don't rip off anyone anymore.
The Fed Gov't has been on them like stink on krap for years and years now.
They are extremely tightly regulated and overseen.
There might be an isolated case somewhere where someone wasn't perfect, but believe me, unions leaders can't turn around without filing reports on why they turned around, which direction they were facing to start with, which direction they ended up facing, and how long it took them to turn around.
If Corporations were regulated and overseen as tightly as unions are there would never be another multi-million dollar executive bonus for laying off workers. There would never been another suit for unsafe products.
UNIONS ARE NOT THE BOOGEY MEN OF THE 1930'S ANYMORE.
The boogey men are in the the CEO'S offices.
Arizona Willie posted at 8:29 am on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
FYI I just got the dreaded SPAM message again. I copied my post then left the website and came back and signed in again and posted again but got the SPAM sign again.
I had used the word p*op and changed it to krap and then it took the message.
Rich posted at 8:30 am on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
"This "half pay nothing " b.s. has to stop" Why? It's true, it's a fact and sweeping it under the rug isn't very helpful. Mike you love to cherry pick, and when you can't you want to ignore the facts brought up by others.
The middle class isn't stagnant Mike. The working class is. The middle class continues to create, make it through, all with a minimum of crying about it. The working class cries about everything, was handed much more than they earned to the point where they had the chutzpah to consider themselves middle class, when they only worked for someone else on a salary. And Mike, this is where the government is looking for the bulk of the tax increase. The small business owners will take the biggest hit, the rich will pay their accountant a bit more, fire a few people and not pay much at all. But that's been the Obama con all along.
Mike McClellan posted at 9:02 am on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Actually, Rich, only 3% of the small business owners "will take the biggest hit," including Donald Trump, who under current definitions of small business, would qualify as one.
As to your claim that the middle class isn't stagnant, since 1980, in every measure, median income has stagnated, with little growth. But income growth for the so-called job creators has exploded over that time.
Your claim of facts is always interesting, Rich, because you never provide any. Kind of Foxish.
Like your "half the country doesn't pay taxes." Let's even give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you meant only federal income tax.
So, when you say that, you include troops in combat, those leeches. You include those folks living on Social Security only, those leeches. You include veterans living on disability, those leeches.
And you include about 1,500 millionaires who were able to evade federal taxes.
And some of those who don't pay federal income tax don't because . . . the Republicans passed tax cuts under George Bush that provided that. So the same Republicans who say -- like you -- that some folks leech off the government helped provide the tax structure that led to what you and the rest of the Foxists like to trot out.
Rich posted at 11:00 am on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
There you go again, taking off without thinking it through or reading what you're reacting to. Is this how you taught kids to think? Ask the IRS, they are the ones who have the stats and nearly half don't pay in and the largest percentage of them take out. It isn't air it's just a fact, and some emotional rant mostly off the subject doesn't change that. Only 3% of small business owners make more than $250,000? Where did that come from? Throwing around made up numbers doesn't mean much, 87% of the percentages you quote in this paper are made up on the spot. And what is your fixation with FOX? Everything you disagree with was made up by a national news organization? Personally I don't watch TV news, but it really sounds paranoid as the devil.
Mike McClellan posted at 1:19 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
The 3%? Joint Congressional Budget Committee. And almost everywhere else.
FOX as the source of your truthiness? Well, I was trying to give you an excuse for your claims. But it looks as if you prefer to take credit for that yourself.
Fine. Well-deserved.
VofReason posted at 1:39 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Is the underlying premise here that if we are just able to put more money the the Government's hands, that we will be better off? That is what is called flawed logic at it's base. If you don't understand that the Government is the most inefficient way to do almost anything (see Post Office), you aren't paying attention.
Arizona Willie posted at 2:34 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
VofReason, you think the Post Office is inefficient?
Try sending a letter from New York City to Barrow, Alaska for 45 cents and have it get there in 3 days with any other organization.
See what it would cost you with FedEx to send that letter.
Medicare is far more efficient than ANY private insurance company. Medicare pays out 92% of premiums in benefits compared to 60-70% for private insurance companies before the Obamacare law. Now they are required to pay at least 80% or refund the difference to policy holders.
That's why the Republicans are so against it .... their paymasters at the Insurance Companies are not happy at having to pay out 80% ... it cuts into their bonuses.
PatrioticPerson posted at 5:06 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Arizona Willie......Do you really think the actual costs is 45 cents to get a letter from NYC to Barrow, Alaska? How many billions of dollars did the Post Office loose?
Is the Federal Government making a profit or even breaking even with Medicare?
Under Obamacare will they be breaking even or making a profit?
Breaking even would be a luxury and who makes up the difference?
Arizona Willie posted at 10:43 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
PatrioticPerson ... the USPS is NOT subsidized by the U.S. Government.
Hasn't been for some years now.
It is, however, saddled with a ridiculous requirement imposed by Congress that it prefund it's pension obligation so that it is now paying on pensions for employee who haven't been born yet!!!
The actual cost is less than 45 cents because the postal service is paying on the prefunded pensions.
ONCE AGAIN -- the U.S. Government does not give the postal service one dime.
NO TAXPAYER MONEY AT ALL.
The prefunded pensions are why the postal service is in financial trouble.
Otherwise it is MUCH more efficient than any private enterprise delivery service.
chuckles3 posted at 7:48 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
Man, this class warfare thing really works to distract the uninformed from the real problem.
More taxes will not solve our spending problem. DO THE MATH. Inform yourself.
Then realize you are being distracted from the real problem: out of control spending by corrupt politicians with no moral courage, and runaway entitlement programs.
This should be the center of the national debate, but the media has shaped the discussion as usual, just as they did during the election.
PatrioticPerson posted at 9:31 pm on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
AZWillie,
No where did I say or even imply that the USPS is subsidized.
I was commenting on your belief that the ACTUAL COST is 45 cents. Not what they charge but that the ACTUAL COST TO THE POST OFFICE is 45 cents to move a letter from NYC to Barrow, Alaska.
If the ACTUAL COST is 45 cents from NYC to Barrow, Alaska then why do they charge 45 cents to move a letter from Phoenix to Chandler? Shouldn't it be maybe 3 cents?
PatrioticPerson posted at 9:34 pm on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
Also you might want to do some research as to why there are no license plates on any post office vehicle.
PatrioticPerson posted at 9:37 am on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
AZ Willie
The USPS is exempt from all taxes. Taxes all the private delivery firms have to pay. The USPS for instance does not pay federal or state tax on the gasoline or diesel fuel they use, which lowers their per gallon cost by 50 cents per gallon or more in every state. They do not pay real estate taxes on the buildings they own and they do not pay state sales taxes on anything the buy. They do not pay for building permits or need any local approvals to build whatever they want to build, anywhere they want to build it. They are also exempt from paying into state disability and unemployment insurance funds. The post office is exempt from filing and paying state and federal income taxes even when they are profitable. Whereas, Federal Express and United Parcel must hire numerous accountants and file tax returns in every state they operate in.
These are called subsidies!