For those of you who still think charter schools aren’t for-profit organizations, the groups combining to put up a new Happy Valley charter in Queen Creek are Gratton Investments and Happy Valley Schools Inc.! Sound like a group that may be a bit concerned about making money for their officers? You bet! My daughter went to public schools in Chandler, and got her doctorate in pharmacy at age 23. It’s the student and parents that will make a student successful, not a profit-making group with self interests!
Bill McGrath
Chandler
sockratties posted at 4:49 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.
Not for profit doesn’t mean nobody makes money, it means the owners don’t make a profit on receipts and there are no shareholders.
For example "Not for profit" hospitals, owned by doctors and medical professionals who use the facility are typical. The hospital pays doctors and staff, leases equipment, leases the buildings, and if any money is left over at the end of the year, expands. And they do it without the burden of taxes.
Doctors benefit as paid employees (and they still bill their patients), leasers, and consultants while the facility remains, “not for profit.” These types of facilities are driving neighborhood hospitals (who have to pay taxes) out of business while inflating medical costs (Medicare) in the process.
Many charter schools operate under the same paradigm. Their competition is the public school system (taxpayer) which is in reality footing the bill. The owners draw income as members of staff and as owners of holding companies which operate much like a franchise.
Cerulean posted at 9:24 pm on Sat, Nov 24, 2012.
“The Arizona Republic, Anne Ryman is out with an investigation into the state's charter schools…
In the end, Ryman reports they found "at least 17 contracts or arrangements, totaling more than $70 million over five years and involving about 40 school sites, in which money from the non-profit charter school went to for-profit or non-profit companies run by board members, executives or their relatives."
http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2012/11/21/how-arizona-charter-school-officials-are-turning-public-funds-into-profit
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20121016insiders-benefiting-charter-deals.html?nclick_check=1
Whatif posted at 2:35 pm on Sun, Nov 25, 2012.
Why are you so against anyone making a profit (the prior comments explain what is done with the profit)? Additionally, why is it even your concern? If there are people wanting to send their kids to this school, they can. Last I checked, it's a free country. Sounds like you would rather have everyone paid according to their need, redistribute profits, and do away with private property and make it all public. Make sure you tell your daughter that the fruits of her labor (her property) should be made public, and that she should not make more money than anyone else.
DemocraticDad posted at 6:33 pm on Sun, Nov 25, 2012.
Leon said, "Just like the "Charter" Schools of today, we learned by rote and by homework. Compare that with our "drug-infested", "gang-infested", "teacher-less (they want to be called = MENTORS), Public Schools of Today."
Leon, Leon, Leon!
I spent 25 years in the public school system in NY as both a teacher and an administrator. After I retired from NY I worked from 2004-10 as the Director of Special Education for one of the largest charter school entities in AZ, overseeing special education in their 22 schools on 13 campuses throughout the state.
And do you know what differences I saw as far as teachers, curriculum, and what went on in public school districts vs. charter schools? VIRTUALLY NOTHING!
The big difference was that the main thrust of the charter school company I worked for was to market and get more, and more students. You see, the more students they got, the more money they took in. The quality of the education they offered was secondary to the monetary concern and the kids suffered for it.
Leon, please stop making a fool of yourself by posting comments on the state of education in this county, something you know NOTHING about. Because, as I have said before, you have not been in a K-12 classroom (in either a public school district, or a charter) since you were in 12th grade!
DemocraticDad posted at 6:42 pm on Sun, Nov 25, 2012.
And by the way Leon...where did you get that $200,000 pension figure from, YOUR PATOOTIE, as you say? I retired from NY, where public school administrators are much better paid than in AZ, and after 25 years of service my pension is under 20% of that figure.
sockratties posted at 4:57 am on Mon, Nov 26, 2012.
If the taxpayer is footing the bill for the profiteers, and if the money is coming out of the public school system, it's every taxpayer's business. The taxpayer pays for availability and benefit to the community. Private schools don't have that requirement even though charter schools work by contract. The school system is always trying to pass tax increases and school bonds, yet they shell out millions to charter schools.
An apt analogy would be a private toll road running parallel to public roads, funded by state highway taxes, payed on a per-car basis at the expense of the existing public system. As the public system degrades, justification for private systems grow stronger. It's a downward spiral by design. Public schools are required to accommodate any and all. Just like roads, everyone needs to pay for them even if they don't use them.
If someone wants to build and operate private schools, let 'em, as long as only the users are paying the bill. If they are as much better as they claim there should be no shortage of students. Charter schools are another example of Arizona politicians trying privatize everything possible. They've sold the state capital buildings, are privatizing transportation, pay for operation of private prisons and now are going after the school system.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 7:52 am on Mon, Nov 26, 2012.
THE LIBS, THE DEMS, THE SOCIALISTS, THE COMMIE WANNA-BE's AND ALL THE OTHER ...."PUBLIC EDUCATION APOLOGISTS".....CAN'T ARGUE WITH SUCCESS..........AND CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE THE BEST OF THE BEST SCHOOLS IN ARIZONA.
OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS DON'T TEACH ANYMORE. THAT'S WHY PEOPLE (NOT ONLY WEALTHY PARENTS BUT FINANCIALLY, MIDDLE AND LOWER CLASS PARENTS) ARE NOT ONLY PAYING TAXES BUT ARE PAYING TUITION TOO TO GET THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS OUT OF THE "TOXIC SWAMP" OF PUBLIC EDUCATION. THESE PARENTS WANT WHAT'S BEST FOR THEIR CHILDREN AND THE PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM OF TODAY IS A TOTAL FAILURE.
DON'T BELIEVE ME...JUST DRIVE AROUND OUR PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS WHEN CLASSES LET OUT. YOU WILL SEE FIGHTS, BULLYING, SMOKING, YOUNG GIRLS DRESSED AS PROSTITUTES AND YOUNG MEN LOOKING LIKE MEMBERS OF A LOCAL GANG.
THEN DRIVE AROUND A LOCAL CHARTER HIGH SCHOOL AND SEE WELL-GROOMED, UNIFORM-WEARING, WELL-ADJUSTED STUDENTS WITH A BACKPACK FULL OF BOOKS FOR 2+ HOURS OF HOMEWORK. WHAT'S MORE, LOOK AT THE PARENTS OF THESE STUDENTS IF THEY ARE PICKING THEIR CHILDREN UP FROM SCHOOL.............THESE PARENTS ARE SMILING, LOOK HAPPY AND WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT...THESE PARENTS LOOK RELAXED KNOWING THAT THE DAUGHTER ISN'T GOING TO END UP AS AN EPISODE ON "16 AND PREGNANT" OR THEIR SON WILL BE ON THE EVENING NEWS AFTER BEING ARRESTED FOR A GANG STOMPING OR DRUG BUST....WHICH IS WHAT MANY PUBLIC SCHOOL PARENTS MUST ENDURE.
DemocraticDad posted at 9:20 am on Mon, Nov 26, 2012.
Leon, I know you don't like to deal with facts, but a study done by Stanford University in 2009 on charter school performance in 16 states. This is from that study:
States that demonstrated lower average charter school student growth than their peers
in traditional schools included:
o Arizona
o Florida
o Minnesota
o New Mexico
o Ohio
o Texas
If you would like to read the entire study it can be found at:
http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_CREDO.pdf
Leon, maybe it's time to NOT JUST DRIVE BY some charter schools and public district schools, but to ACTUALLY GO INSIDE and spend a fair amount of time there and see what is really taking place inside!
chuckles3 posted at 11:23 am on Mon, Nov 26, 2012.
Public school are not for profit, they excel at wasting the money we throw at them to improve results.
Charter schools are for profit. If they do not do something to attract students, they will lose money and unlike our Government- run schools go out of business.
The Government run schools will just ask for more money 'for the children' and continue to waste it.
Successful charter schools(you know the ones that do a good job of educating the students instead of padding unions and administrations) will grow and turn out better students. Apparently this horrifies statist zombies. Good.
Mike McClellan posted at 4:00 pm on Mon, Nov 26, 2012.
FYI: Charter schools are not necessarily for-profit. In fact, most are not for-profit.
DonMey posted at 12:29 pm on Tue, Nov 27, 2012.
Teachers are in it for a paycheck (not a huge one, but see how many would do it for free).
Engaged Voter posted at 1:02 pm on Wed, Nov 28, 2012.
"JUST DRIVE AROUND OUR PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS WHEN CLASSES LET OUT"
Leon, you should not be stalking the high schools, especially when students are let out...someone might get the wrong idea. ;)
VofReason posted at 2:00 pm on Wed, Nov 28, 2012.
Here is something, if a charter school can accept less funding per student than a public school, get better results and make a profit. You get my vote. Or are we OK with public schools that cost more, get lower achievement (except the writer's child of course) and has administrators that make 100K+ and get a pension? Boy that is a tough one.
Tookie88 posted at 5:25 pm on Wed, Nov 28, 2012.
@DonMey...would you do your job for free? Why do people think that teachers need to be paid just this side of poverty wages?
Also, as an educator I have seen products of some poorly run charter schools (and there are a lot of them out there...they are the majority versus the minority). They are literally "dumped" from the charter school after the 100 day of funding stops (usually around mid January) and they have their money for the student. The parents are usually told that their school isn't the right fit for their child. The student is then forced to return to the public school and are usually behind and struggle to get caught up. Then this student that is behind and has no hope to catch up in time for AIMS is counted against the public school.
Don't get me started on how charter schools can turn students away, how they are not held accountable financially as public schools and yet receive public funds, and how their teachers do not have to be certified or even hold a teaching degree.
I actually think charter schools are part of the demise of our public education in regards to finances.
DonMey posted at 5:40 pm on Wed, Nov 28, 2012.
Took - Would you run a business for no profit? Same thing as working for free. And while I don't think teachers should be paid "just this side of poverty wages", it is an extremely valid point to mention how much time off teachers get. Most people's wages would be much lower if they took as many days off as teachers get.