The recent slaughter at the grade school in Connecticut is an unimaginable tragedy that could never have been predicted.
What can be predicted will be the national call to disarm honest, law-abiding citizens as a result. The hue and cry to collect and ban defensive weapons will propel politicians and those who worship the flawless power of government to trot out all the discounted myths of gun control that always miss the target.
What most opponents of the right to bear arms won’t tell you is that the very likelihood of guns being present deters a vast majority crimes. That’s because cowards who open fire on innocent five year olds are encouraged by knowing that there is nothing on campus to stop them. Signs posted on the perimeter announcing No Firearms Zone virtually guarantee an unrestricted free-for-all to anyone evil enough to engage. But denying all citizens the right to protect themselves will in no way hinder the criminal-minded from carrying out their nefarious designs.
The greatest testament to the safety of a heavily-armed environment is the fact that no one has ever tried to storm a gun show.
So, when the president sheds a public tear over the tragedy, my guess is he has consoled himself with intentions to use it to promote a national so-called called “dialogue” on rounding up guns from the innocent in order to protect the ambitions of the miscreants of society. Then the American Slaughter will begin in earnest.
P.J. O’Malley
Mesa
You Must Be Joking posted at 7:34 am on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
Of course not idiot! They are all sane, well adjusted, self-confident, law abiding citizens...of course no one has blown up a fertilizer trade show either.
bubba posted at 7:34 am on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
P.J. O’Malley...... "What most opponents of the right to bear arms won’t tell you is that the very likelihood of guns being present deters a vast majority crimes"...... The Fort Hood shooting was a shooting that took place on November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas. In the course of the shooting, a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others.It is the worst shooting ever to take place on an American military base. A military base surrounded by guns and people trained to use them wasn't much of a deterent, was it?
Will_Travel posted at 9:10 am on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
Bubba, no one on a military installation may carry or possess a firearm except military police. So ... A military base surrounded by guns that were inaccessible and people trained to use them couldn't access them so the shooter was not deterred.
Cerulean posted at 9:14 am on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
P.J. sounds like a nincompup. P.J. if it takes a gun show warehouse of weapons to deter a young man in his 20’s from killing . . .
This nice little family news paper is giving a lot of support to the heavy weapons advocates.
Masterrogue666 posted at 9:26 am on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
bubba: You're info isn't quite accurate. The VICTIMS at Foot Hood were unarmed. The shootings occurred at the Soldier Readiness Processing Center, where peronnel receive MEDICAL TREATMENT. So, it stands to REASON that there wasn't many "armed" persons inside the building.
Here's a link so that you may become better informed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting
DataMan posted at 10:47 am on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
PJ. How many guns were sold at gun shows to people that couldn't legally posses them?
We'll never know the exact number, because of the lack of background checks.
So you promote unregulated guns for everyone, including criminals! What a guy!
DataMan posted at 10:50 am on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
PJ, remember the shooting in Tuscon? Bet you didn't know that there were people there carrying concealed.
They didn't start shooting however, as they weren't sure who the good and bad guy was, and feared hurting the wrong person.
bubba posted at 11:42 am on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
I'm not sure what the answer could be to stem these rampages. I'd just hate to be the responding cop that encounters additional armed people that may be shooting at the moment I enter the room and have to figure out which one to neutralize. And then have to deal with the additional unintended victims of the crossfire. As well meaning as the civilian defenders may be, I just beleive it would be more dangerous.
VofReason posted at 12:47 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
Good Bubba. So by your answer, you are ok with the perpatrator picking off unarmed victims for however long it takes for the Police to arrive. By then, the Police will likely know that the only person living must be the shooter- right? I will agree, seems silly to let guns be sold "under the table" at gun shows and act like doing background checks from Gun Stores keeps everyone safe.
bubba posted at 1:56 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
VofReason...Your response is ridicuolus, and interjects abusurd conclusions as to my comment. This is an example of the failure to communicate resolves to the bloodshed this nation has endured. As I stated in the first sentence: I'm not sure what the answer could be. Apparently you have the absolute, end all solution to this problem. Please enlighten us all. I'll wait.
bubba posted at 2:26 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
This conversation puts me in mind of an episode of All in the Family.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxA6QZjCJ60F
mlimberg posted at 3:59 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
Wow.... this thread suggests this Country is overran with ignorant individuals attempting to make a point about a subject they know nothing about.
Reading some of the cr@p here, I would expect large body counts are shooting ranges?
Gun owners, hunters and marksman are without question the most responsible subset of individuals in this Country. I challenger you to prove me different. I've done the research, have the data to back that statement, and I want you to research, quote your sources as to why my statement is incorrect?
There is a reason some sub divisions in cities sell for a lot of money. It costs to be reasoned and learned about society. Winging in the real world does not work. your comments reflect that. I'll let you ponder the sub division line. I hope it causes you to reflect what society really looks like, what neighborhood you live in, and why you can't ever live in that desirable neighborhood.
Can't wait to see the mush that is about to be posted. It'll make Miss Venezuela's comment seem brilliant!
Will_Travel posted at 4:24 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
Bubba, I don't have an answer either. I'm certain that all of us wish someone did. We know that the principal and school psychologist responded to the threat without a weapon and died doing so. The local police, while responding very quickly, were still too late to do anything but count the bodies. Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in-between.
I don't think all teachers should be armed, but ... My wife is a retired school administrator and I know her instinct to protect children would drive her to do whatever she could without regard to her own safety. A properly trained, and I mean training similar to that of law enforcement, armed person on campus may be the answer, not much different than a SRO but dedicated to security only.
Data, the concealed carrier(s) at the shooting in Tuscon didn't start shooting because of the crowd and the fear of hitting innocents, many of whom were preparing to rush the shooter or to give aid to those already hit .
bubba posted at 5:06 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
Will_Travel ....Thank you for a well thought out comment.
Will_Travel posted at 5:51 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
Thank you Bubba and I do enjoy a civilized debate, especially one without name calling.
I'm retired LEO. I did some extradition work during my career and often boarded the aircraft with the crew. I always received a warm welcome from the crew IF they knew why I came on board with them. I never encountered any negativity because I was traveling armed. I trained at the same place (I think) where FFDO's are trained. That training is what I suggest be used to train "school security officers".
Merry Christmas!
Cerulean posted at 6:21 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
The man in this video believes he has the answer.
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2319995892/
bubba posted at 8:51 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
Will_Travel ...I think the idea of well trained, armed security personel in schools is the best viable solution. Hard part will be funding this protection. With the slashing of programs we already have, and the demand for more cuts it may be a hard sell. The cuts Congress made to Embassy security I'm sure played a part in the Benghazi attack. But I don't think we have a choice. Arming the teachers is just not an option. The idea of easy access to mental help would be a preemptive deterrent, but also very expensive. What happened at Sandy Hook has shaken this nation to the core, and as we collect our composure I'm sure we'll we'll find the resourses it'll take to keep our school children safe.........Also, I'd like to thank your wife for the years of dedication she invested in our future generations. Our educators lately have been underappriciated for their dedication, and the heroic acts of the staff at Sandy Hook Elem. proved that dedication. Let's not forget it.....Merry Christmas to you and yours.
rockinroller posted at 1:02 pm on Sat, Dec 22, 2012.
Here's an eye-opening statistic: In 2008 the US incurred 55,000 run related deaths. Japan had 11 (that's 11 in THE WHOLE COUNTRY). Japan enjoys one of the most strict gun controls in the world.
Coincidence? I think not. The time has come in this country for the rights of potential shooting victims to be recognized. Guns (especially automatic weapons) have no place in our modern society of freaks, hotheads, video gamers who take virtual to reality, etc.
Will_Travel posted at 5:25 pm on Sat, Dec 22, 2012.
So rockinroller, is the problem guns or freaks, hotheads, video gamers? BTW, automatic weapons have been tightly regulated since 1968, requiring ATF approval and background checks for transfer of ownership and not one has been used by its owner in a crime ... ever.
bubba posted at 6:39 pm on Sat, Dec 22, 2012.
Well, maybe not.....ever. On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison.
bubba posted at 6:43 pm on Sat, Dec 22, 2012.
BTW The Murder I refered to above was with a legal full auto. Many more crimes have been committed with illegal full autos. One that comes to mind right away would be the North Hollywood shoot out.
bubba posted at 7:03 pm on Sat, Dec 22, 2012.
Another homicide, involving a legally owned machine gun, occurred on September 14, 1992, also in Ohio. Dr. Shau Chao Ho killed another doctor.
Will_Travel posted at 10:12 am on Sun, Dec 23, 2012.
Bubba, my bad. 2 events; almost one quarter million full auto weapons personally owned. I don't have numbers for those that are in LE and military circulation. Many LE are issued patrol rifles, some of which are full auto (I always had one) and I know of many of those that were stolen. The military weapons are more tightly controlled (stored at the armory) but some of them are stolen also.
Isn't it strange that a police officer and a doctor were the perpetrators in these cases; two professions that most people trust. So much for do no harm.
There a many illegally modified weapons used in crimes. Full auto is a risky modification on most weapons. Without specific training, the weapon usually becomes non-functional except as a single shot.
Poorman posted at 10:39 am on Sun, Dec 23, 2012.
Speaking of gun shows,no one should reallly buy at them,you go to look,and then make arrangements to purchase later privately off site.Lots of people already do that,don't have to worry about loopholes and good ole uncle. As for weapons,soon they will be after grandpas old hunting and bird gun. Most of these talking experts have no idea how easy it is to legally change a lot of guns with a little work into a so called asault weapon, by all means don't forget to make it black, Do any of the so called media experts out there have any idea how much dmage can be done in a closed area with a good legally modified pump shotgun...,and they mostly can hold eight rounds.
onerebel posted at 4:26 pm on Sun, Dec 23, 2012.
If one wants to know how well gun control would work, look no farther then Mexico. "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson
COLT2 posted at 10:39 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.
Personnel on Military bases are unarmed, except for security. Easier pickings then in civilian cities.