The immigration poll this week shows that Arizona is ready for a moderate solution that is both cost effective and beneficial. This is in stark contrast to the often hyped solution of a giant fence and raids on day laborers.
Any approach to immigration should be two-fold. First, stem the current tide flowing into Arizona. That includes illegals but also drug traffickers and gang/cartel members.
Use of the National Guard to patrol the border while calling on the president to rotate active duty units to secure the border. It’s excellent training for deployments in which we have to secure border regions, i.e.
Afghanistan-Pakistan, Iraq-Syria, Iraq-Iran. I speak from experience as a West Point infantry officer with two tours in Iraq.
Second, we must address the 400,000 illegals who are here.
Blanket amnesty is not the way to go. This only encourages more illegals to come and makes us appear weak to our enemies. America is a nation of immigrants and should continue to open our borders to those who agree to obey our laws and add to our culture. A path to citizenship, dictated by the legislature, will add to our state coffers through both the fines and the now taxed income of the new citizens. Simultaneously, it will reduce spending on immigration raids and focus that money and manpower on crimes such as gang activity, homicide, narcotics, and so forth.
The poll may not be definitive but it signals a step in the right direction for Arizona.
Joseph Caudle
Gilbert
Dale Whiting posted at 7:18 am on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Joe,
May I presume correctly that as a former West Point Infantry officer you are aware of the federal law prohibiting the use of troops, either NG or regular, to enforce law? As an Army EOD unit commander, I had to insure that neither I nor my men got drawn into state or federal investigations when we were called in to "defuze" a situation. We could not even take custody of the "evidence," a bomb make safe, without spoiling the case for "the authorities." At best, we could act as expert witnesses and fact witnesses on the issue of what we did.
Sure troops can patrol the border. Yet they cannot make arrests, but at best might act as witnesses for border patrol agents who might be patrolling along side. So just what role would you have federal or state military forces play? Shoot first or merely ride shotgun? There must be a reasonable use, but just what it is escapes me. How about you?
I just heard today on that liberal media source, MSNBC, that a majority [more than 60% but I did not capture the precise figure] of Arizona Republicans agree with you and I that a pathway to citizenship would be preferable to such measures as SB1070. Russell Pearce, are you listening? No? I thought not!
Dale Whiting posted at 8:26 am on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
P.S.
The % of Republicans in Arizona now supporting what is in effect comprehensive immigration reform, i.e. a pathway to citizenship, provided difficult steps are undertaken by the illegal alien applicant, is 69, better than 2/3rds, this according to our own Morrision Institute.
Will the neo-cons fall in behind? I doubt it! But if all Independents and all Democrats join in with 2/3rd of us Republicans, our Republican Machine may have to drop its support of SB1070 and maybe even Joe Arpaio and Russell Pearce. Those numbers are imposing! ! !
Rational Human posted at 8:47 am on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
That survey shows nothing of what you say Joe. It was a biased survey designed to elicit a response supporting comprehensive immigration reform, AKA amnesty. Arizonians favor SB1070 by a 70% margin, and want illegals gone.
Dale just heard a liberal media source say that Arizona Republicans favor amnesty to SB1070 so that must be true. After all, he heard it on TV, so it must be true. If you can't trust a liberal TV news media to tell you the truth, who can you trust lol.
Dale are you referring to the Posse Comitatus Act? The Posse Comitatus Act is an often misunderstood and misquoted United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction. Its intent (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) was to limit the powers of local governments and law enforcement agencies from using federal military personnel to enforce the laws of the land. Contrary to popular belief, the Act does not prohibit members of the Army from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order"; it simply requires that any orders to do so must originate with the United States Constitution or Act of Congress. I'm not surprised that it confuses you though. There is no reason why congress cannot seal the border with military troops other than it's desire to continue the current flow of drugs and illegal aliens across our southern border.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 10:36 am on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
6 Months ago...the Pew Polls and all the other National Polls cited 65% of Arizona citizens and 60% of American Citizens as being......"OPPOSED"...to any...."Amnesty" for Illegal Aliens.
Are we to believe that all of these Arizona Citizens changed their "Anti-Illegal Alien Amnesty" political beliefs. That all 65% of the Citizens of Arizona did a "Romney Flip-Flop" and now want Illegal Aliens to become their neighbors ???
The ASU-Morrison Institute of Public Policy is a Liberal Think-Tank. It's leader was the head of the Gannett Company who must own every single Liberal Newspaper in the Nation.
As for citing the writer of this "Letter to the Editor" as a former US Army Academy at West Point graduate is "supposed" to give more credence to his argument for Illegal Alien Amnesty. If I may use an old time expression (old is the operative word...like me....lol) = What the heck does that have to do with the price of tea in China??? Just look at all the "cheating scandals" in just about every single US Military Academy that we have all read about...year in and year out.
I think all of us have seen this past week what "idolizing" our political, military and sports icons just because of their job does . We have all seen Presidents disgraced, preachers disgraced, cardinals disgraced, coaches disgraced, majors disgraced, law enforcement and politicians disgraced. "What" you are has no bearing whatsoever on "who" you are...in my book at least. What a reporter writes holds no more water to me than what you and I comment on. Opinions are like "belly buttons"...everybody has one.
Since the Military was brought up, let's look at the reasons for the past Wars that so many of our American Military men and women have been involved in, been wounded in and sadly, died in. Mostly, our Military Men and Women were protecting the "Borders" of Foreign Nations from invasion. Yet, our Border with Mexico is being invaded by hundreds of thousands of Illegal Aliens and the Liberals, the Progressives, the Socialists, the Open Border fanatics and the Democrats all turn a blind eye. They call for "compassion for a few tomato pickers", "compassion for the few gardeners and landscape workers", "compassion for the few fruit and tobacco pickers", "compassion for the few chicken pluckers and few meat packers".
Well, Folks, these "few" have now become 20-40 Million Illegal Aliens who are bankrupting America.
I don't care if you have 4-Stars on your shoulder, if you are not supporting the deportation of these millions and millions of Illegal Alien "Criminals" who have invaded the Nation that you have sworn to protect...than how are you any different than a certain Revolutionary War American General who went over to the British side to help their Invasion of our Great Country.
Cerulean posted at 10:41 am on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Joseph, I agree.
Some people would like us to believe that SB1070 is the end all, be all savior from immigrants. The title of SB1070 is ‘Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act’. What does the Act do? It makes it a misdemeanor to be in Arizona without papers and asks police to make that determination out on the street. OK , if you speak Spanish and are caught without papers - you get a misdemeanor and some jail time. The first time you are caught you pay $500, second time $1000 etc. . How much will it cost trying to collect the fine? Who pays to build the prisons and staff?
Currently if a police officer, in their normal line of duty, believes someone is illegally here they are asked to inform Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). ICE has similar fines plus, if there is a felony charge, ICE will take the immigrant to the Texas border and drop them off. That immigrant will never be eligible for citizenship.
Poorman posted at 11:20 am on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
A two fold approach is right,arrest & deport,arrest & deport maybe give em a baloney sandwich for the trip back.On second thought no,baloney costs money.
Accuracy posted at 11:22 am on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Cheer up Dale, several states have recently adopted new anti-illegal immigration laws . . . including Utah’s HB497 (Arizona-style) “show me your papers” law currently under legal challenge by the ACLU and the National Immigration Law Center.
Even yesterday, President Obama, and his Justice Department officials, are urging the U.S. Supreme Court not to take up the lawsuit over Arizona's anti-illegal immigration law. Obama wants the high court to agree with lower courts that have so far halted provisions of the law that targets people who are in the country illegally.
Arizona Willie posted at 12:15 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
A two fold approache, eh?
OK
How about proximity mines and bouncing betty's?
Place them all along the border.
Arizona Willie posted at 12:39 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Dale Whiting, posse comitatus prevents the Army from enforcing laws such as speeding or robbery or any regular type law.
But our borders define our nation. They outline it. They create it. Without borders you don't have a nation ... you have territory.
The Armed Forces including the National Guard exist to defend our nation. They routinely guard the borders of countries we send them to help because borders are the life of a nation. Without borders that nation doesn't exist.
Since our Armed Forces, by definition, exist to protect our country they certainly CAN defend our border. The criminals crossing our border are armed and DO SHOOT at the Border Patrol.
People crossing a border and shooting at border guards is normally considered an act of war. It certainly would be anywhere else in the world.
The Mexican Government sponsors the people flooding across our border. They have put out pamphlets telling people how to come north and get here safely.
They are sent here by Mexico to work illegally and send money back to Mexico.
The Mexican Government encourages it's people to illegally cross our borders. Again, any where but here in the U.S. they would call that an act of war.
Our troops SHOULD be stationed on the border with orders to shoot if fired upon.
PS Joseph Caudle ---- there are not 400,000 illegals here. The number is closer to 20,000,000.
Dale Whiting posted at 4:05 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Rational might be correct. Since Posse Comitatus is a Federal Act, it would only take another Federal Act to get arround it. There is nothing unconstitutional about using Federal Troops. But absent that enabling law, Posse Comitatus does prohibit troops from acting like policing authorities.
Willie's argument if for justification to pass that additional law. But absent that addition, no troops can act to enforce any federal law for any reason. It's that simple!
samkat posted at 4:32 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Willie: There are many more American citizens favoring putting our citizens to work than there are "neo-con" liberals pushing for amnesty. We happen to be among the ones who care for our countrymen over illegals.
With over 8 million illegals in the work force and over 14 million unemployed Americans, I vote for taking care of our people. This does not take into account the other 18 million underemployed or discouraged Americans who have simply given up. Let the open borders crowd opt to pull rotating tours in the Southern hemisphere countries improving the lot of the people there if they are so concerned.
For those naysayers who claim these people are only filling jobs that Americans will not, I say give the veterans and their fellow Americans an opportunity to disprove that statement. Just think of our military veterans who performed a lot of jobs that the average illegal and a good deal many of the far left liberals disparaging them would do. I believe our veterans and fellow Americans deserve the opportunity to take on far more distasteful jobs before proving they will not do them. I am seeing more and more Anglos doing lawn care and landscaping. Every time there has been an immigration bust, there were lines of Americans offering to fill the jobs. I have no doubt Americans will do construction work and a host of other "dirty" jobs if given the opportunity.
For the apologists who want to extend amnesty, I say let the illegals have one free pass out of the United States without a penalty to apply for reentry the legal way. All they have to do is to get in line BEHIND those folks already patiently waiting their turn.
For those apologists who decry breaking up families, that is a myth also since they have the option of departing together. I don't see any of these apologists expressing their concern for our military members who experience family separations every day. Having been there and done that many times during my military career I have no compassion for law breakers just because they either chose to put their family in such a position or spawned after arriving here assuming that the liberals would attempt to protect them.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 4:45 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
What is all this baloney about the Posse Comitatus Law. Securing the Border of the United States is not a "police action". The Constitution (which obviously no Liberal/Progressive/Socialist/Democrat has every read, much less even seen) states that ...."the United States (that's the Feds to you Libs) shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each from invasion".
Well 400,000 Mexicans, El Salvadorans, Guatamalans and Hondurans "illegally" crossing the border (most with 40lb gunnysack backpacks of marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth and even opium) sure sounds like and .........INVASION....to me.
Dale Whiting posted at 4:46 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Ok all of you authoritative sources out there, Chew this!
The following establishes that 69% of Republicans state wide when surveyed in early October appeared to favor something like comprehensive immigration reform. Yet since the announcement did not occur until Nov 9th, i.e. recall election day, it's highly unlikely that the Morrison Institute would have delayed announcement so long. Liberals are not this stupid. But Neo-cons alleging so are that stupid!
Eat . . . t!
MI poll: Immigration enforcement, pathway to citizenship favored
November 9, 2011
Arizonans overwhelmingly favor a comprehensive approach to immigration policies – secure borders and enforcement, coupled with a possible pathway to citizenship for undocumented residents, according to a new statewide poll by Dr. Bruce Merrill and Morrison Institute for Public Policy.
Seventy-eight percent of Arizonans surveyed said they would support legislation for undocumented longtime residents to become citizens if they pay a fine, pass a criminal background check here and their nation of origin, get a taxpayer I.D. number and demonstrate they can speak English.
Such a position is in stark contrast to hard-line stances held by many state leaders, including Senate President Russell Pearce, the face and force behind Arizona’s aggressive anti-illegal-immigration politics, including SB 1070. Pearce lost a historic recall election Tuesday to challenger Jerry Lewis, whose campaign included a more moderate approach to immigration issues than his fellow Mesa Republican.
“The issue of illegal immigration is much more complex than most people realize,” said Merrill, senior research fellow at Morrison Institute and the poll director. “People see the issues of border enforcement and what to do about undocumented immigrants who have been in the country for many years, many with children who are American citizens, as separate issues. This poll shows that while almost all Arizonans want stronger enforcement of border security, people also are strongly in favor of some sort of earned citizenship program.”
That position is underscored by the fact illegal immigration was listed in the poll among the top problems – along with jobs and education – facing the governor and Legislature.
Full results of the statewide poll, which covered issues ranging from sales tax to election reform to education funding, will be released Nov. 30 in Phoenix at the State of Our State Conference, hosted by Morrison Institute for Public Poll. Information: MorrisonInstitute.asu.edu
In the poll, immigration policies that would include possible citizenship were supported most by young people, Hispanics, women, college graduates and registered Democrats and Independents (ranging from 84 percent to 89 percent, depending on individual group). However, more than 66 percent of registered Republicans also supported that approach.
“While the immigration issue has been characterized as a partisan one, these findings indicate that it is less so than most have believed,” said Dr. David Daugherty, director of research at Morrison Institute.
“Clearly when given details about a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, the majority of citizens are amenable to it. Part of the lesson from these findings is that increased information and greater detail – as stated in the poll question itself – can serve to moderate opinions,” Daugherty added.
The statewide poll of adult heads of households was conducted Oct. 4 to 11. Fifty-nine percent of the 600 telephone interviews were conducted in Maricopa County, 17 percent in Pima County and 24 percent in Arizona’s other counties. Forty-nine percent of the voters interviewed were men; 51 percent were women. The sample was selected so as to include representative numbers of cell phone users and Hispanics. The sampling error for the statewide sample survey is plus or minus 4.0 percent.
The poll director is Dr. Bruce Merrill, senior research fellow at Morrison Institute for Public Policy and professor emeritus of the ASU Cronkite School of Journalism. Dr. Tara Blanc, a lecturer in ASU’s School of Public Affairs, is the associate poll director. Dr. David Daugherty is the director of research at Morrison Institute.
Established in 1982, Morrison Institute for Public Policy is a leader in examining critical Arizona and regional issues, and is a catalyst for public dialogue. An Arizona State University resource, Morrison Institute uses nonpartisan research and communication outreach to help improve the state’s quality of life.
·
Poll question wording:
There are a number of undocumented immigrants who have lived in Arizona for many years. Many have children who are American citizens. Would you support or oppose legislation that would allow these people to be put on a path to becoming American citizens if they have no criminal record either where they came from or here in Arizona if they pay a fine for coming into the country illegally, get a taxpayer I.D. number and demonstrate they can speak English?
Poll answer results:
Support Oppose D.K. Total
Total sample 78% (83) 16 6 100%
Republicans 69% (73) 25 6 100%
Democrats 89% (94) 6 5 100%
Independents 79% (83) 16 5 100%
Anglo 76% (81) 18 6 100%
Hispanic 81% (89) 10 9 100%
H.S. or less 67% (75) 22 11 100%
Some college 74% (80) 19 7 100%
College graduates 82% (85) 14 4 100%
Men 72% (77) 22 6 100%
Women 80% (85) 14 6 100%
Under 35 years of age 84% (90) 9 7 100%
35 thru 59 79% (84) 15 6 100%
60 and older 72% (77) 21 7 100%
I copied and pasted the foregoing from the Morrison Instutute web page at ASU.edu. The cite is mentioned in the article.
Why can't Neo-cons recognize the truth when it bits them in the but? Because they think with their buts and bites hurt too much!
samkat posted at 6:23 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Guys: We must have touched a nerve this afternoon. :-)
samkat posted at 7:48 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
The unscientific survey cited also mentioned that over 70% of Arizonans still favor SB 1070 so it appears that our good citizens are still concerned about the unlawful invasion. :-)
By the way, one thing I learned in statistics is that a good statistician can manipulate data to provide a desired outcome.
It is a shame the liberals are more concerned about illegals than in putting our citizens back to work. Now, if that is considered to be a neo-con, I guess this old dog democrat is definitely a hawk.
Logical Thought posted at 9:03 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Leon- I believe the writer is using his West Point background to support his theory about troops on the border, not amnesty.
Willie- the U.S. is part of an anti-mine treaty. Your suggestion won't work; sorry.
Everyone else - part of our problem is that both politicians and the public constantly refer to the liberal or neo-cons, etc. Let's try to stop focusing on labeling and work on truly bipartisan solutions.
Dale Whiting posted at 9:19 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Logical Thought,
So where do you stand on Comprehensive Immigration Reform? Clearly SB1070 hasn't so much as a thread of bipartisan coolition. And where we hear nearly constant criticism of legislating from the bench, Bolton's opinion was founded upon long standing case law, nothing like Citizens United!
Leon Ceniceros posted at 9:43 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
Bipartisan = "Quisling".... spelled backwards.
bobunf posted at 9:57 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.
The hysteria about illegal immigrants is truly silly: fueled by the primeval fear of the stranger and encouraged by pandering politicians deep into the scapegoating business.
THE EFFECTS OF ILLEGALS
Any reputable economist will tell you that illegal immigrants provide an economic benefit to the citizens of this country. They obviously enrich our cultural and society.
THE IMPRACTICALITY AND IMMORALITY OF MASS DEPORTATION
Deporting 400,000 people from Arizona would be economically devastating - another 150,000 empty dwelling units on the market just for a start. It would also be grotesquely inhumane - splitting families that have lived together in Arizona for decades - most commonly mother from child.
The history of such deportations is grossly abysmal for both the victims and the perpetrators. Take the expulsion of the French from the Maritimes in 1755. It is still a matter of bitterness in Canada and other places. Canada almost broke up with this as one of the issues in 1980. It affected French and Canadian cooperation with the British during WWI and WWII.
THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF COMPLETE SECURING OF THE BORDER
The border will never be secure enough for the xenophobes. The East Germans had the most secure border ever, with 1.4 million anti-personnel mines, 700 watchtowers, 1,000 bunkers, 47,000 troops, 6% of their country in the prohibited border zone.
They killed 1,100 people trying to cross; injured and arrested tens of thousands more. They ran a police state. Still, a few hundred to a thousand people somehow managed to cross the border every year.
No American should want to emulate the Deutsche Demokratische Republik and the STASI.
Dale Whiting posted at 2:20 am on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.
bobunf,
While you observe that "No American should want to emulate the Deutsche Demokratische Republik and the STASI," remember that the Neo-cons on this site are Americans who do wish to emulate the Deutsche Demokratische Republik and the STASI but just do not realize that they do. When a Neo-con has truth kick them in the but, they don't comprehend it. Thinking from their buts, being kicked there hurts too much. So they miss the point.
Thanks for trying to point this out. But the effort is futile. Just look how these guys read what the needed to read into the Morrision Institute poll. "Unscientific!" they alledge. As if opinion polls they might subscribe to are any different? No. Truth kicking a Neo-con in his but has no productive effect, none whatsoever!
As a Conservative taking moderate approaches, in their minds I become a Liberal. If given a choice between John McCain, a Republican who was never embraced by the extreme right [extreme wrong would paint a clearer picture] with his pick of the litter, Sarah Palin, and a closeted moderate, Barack Obama and the well known quantity, Joe Biden, choosing to vote for Obama makes me in the eyes of these Neo-cons a died in the wool Liberal, as if they have ever met one.
Just working with these guys reminds me of a patriot, you know, the ones who rang theLliberty Bell. Nice sound, but the ring lacks substance. Should McCain die before 2012, just thinking of Sarah Palin becoming president runs shivers up my spine! And it's not that Palin could take moderate positions! She just would not know that she was. Todd might know. But he'd never tell Sarah that what he told her to do was moderate.
Arizona Willie posted at 8:53 am on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.
Posse comitatus just means that the government can't use the Army / National Guard to enforce civilian laws.
That is, the government can't use the Army to remove the Occupy protestors.
Hmmm, who fired those shots at Kent State? Wasn't that a violation of Posse Commitatus?
Our Armed Forces exist to protect OUR country. We routinely send them to other countries to guard THEIR borders for them.
A nation cannot exist without defined secure borders. Without borders you don't have a nation --- you have a Territory.
People streaming across another countries borders is usually referred to as an INVASION except when it's not politically correct as in the current INVASION.
Our Armed Forces are SUPPOSED to protect us from INVASIONS.
There is NO REASON our Armed Forces cannot be used to patrol our borders.
Dale Whiting posted at 1:34 pm on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.
Willie,
You miss the point entirely. Sure military forces can patrol. And they can use force to quell domestic violence. But what they do cannot lead to law enforcement activities like arresting invaders and hauling them to court. So if Joseph wants military forces to ride "shot gun" with law enforcment officers from ICE, no problemo. That's why I mentioned "shot gun." That's a figure of speach to mean ride in the front seat opposide the law enforcement officer. Heck, the military could be driving and the ICE officer be in the shot gun seat. But one cannot use military forces to enforce law without specific legislation to authorize it!
Dale Whiting posted at 1:36 pm on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.
Willie,
P.S. Even M.P.s cannot enforce law off their post or duty station, except as enforcement pertains to military folks.
You've got a lot to learn about law enforcement protocols and military forces.
k33j88 posted at 6:55 am on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.
Question: How many of you left-leaning, liberal apologists are willing to accept illegals into your home,, your frig, your car, your bedroom, hell----let your daughter marry one. Step up to the plate----be a true neo-lib. When all hell breaks loose, and that "hard working immigrant" is found to be a career criminal thats carrying an airborne TB virus----don't ask for help from this "neo-con".
Dale Whiting posted at 3:01 pm on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.
k33j88,
Just how do you figure some of the above commenters are "left-leaning, liberal apologists?" And how have you established some apparently hypocritical sounding criteria for calling them out? I know of no one who would allow strangers from the Tea Party, let alone illegal aliens "into your home, your frig, your car, your bedroom, hell ---- let your daughter marry one." My daughter will marry whomever she darn well pleases.
But the audacity of your hopelessness comes at the very end. "Found to be a career criminal that's carying an airborne TB virus!" You're sick, sick in the head k33j88! See a shrink before it becomes too late.
Arizona Willie posted at 4:41 pm on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.
Dale, that k33j88 person obviously has some problem(s) -- but he is also correct in that illegal immigrants have brought back some diseases we had previously wiped out.
They come from countries that don't have the vaccination programs that have existed in the U.S. for years.
TB is one and the bedbug invasion is also attributable to the invading illegals.
k33j88 posted at 6:20 pm on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.
Thank you Willie for exhibiting some form of common sense. As for you, Dale, my office is well prepared for your rant & misconceptions. There still might be some hope for you. This "shrink", as you put it, will stop at nothing to help with your dilusions. I do believe in the human spirit with all of its' positive potential. Be a "nice boy" and be respectful and I might help you.
k33j88 posted at 6:36 am on Tue, Nov 15, 2011.
Morning Dale-----Your therapy session is waiting. After seeing how respectful, law-abiding citizens these "tea partiers" actually are, I wouldn't hesitate to offer my home as a place of refuge. Dale, you should be ashamed of yourself for throwing your support behind those anarchists, Occupy Wall Street. They, and you, Sir, agree on what's right for our country. Please pull your head "out of the sand" before it's too late. Remember----You're therapy session is waiting---1st meeting is free.
k33j88 posted at 6:39 am on Tue, Nov 15, 2011.
Please forgive my typeo's---have'nt had morning coffee yet.
TeaPartyPatriot posted at 5:06 pm on Tue, Nov 15, 2011.
bobunf says Any reputable economist will tell you that illegal immigrants provide an economic benefit to the citizens of this country. They obviously enrich our cultural and society. Really bob?
From the L. A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal aliens working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most-wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County .)
(All 10 of the above statements are from the Los Angeles Times)
Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.
Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth (and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration.
29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.
We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue!
California is going broke. You wnat the same for Arizona?
TeaPartyPatriot posted at 5:08 pm on Tue, Nov 15, 2011.
The path to American citizenship begins in their own country. Criminals don't have to be and shouldn't be rewarded.
pnutman posted at 11:44 am on Wed, Nov 16, 2011.
Item that also must be addressed would be the 14th Amdt. which needs to rid itself of the Citizenship portion on anyone born here....However, I can't trust any Politician to do anything LOGICAL on Immigration Reform, anything they do will be "self serving" and not what Kennedy would paraphrase his words to be "DO ONLY WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOUR COUNTRY." Those POLITICIANS are few and far between, and that is why we are in the bowels of the Toilet bowl.
pnutman posted at 11:59 am on Wed, Nov 16, 2011.
Why did General McArthur end up in Wash DC in the summer of 1932, accompanied by future General's, Eisenhower, Patton, brandishing their sabres and fixed bayonets and use tear gas at the "Bonus Army". Thousands were "gassed" and many seriously injured.
McCarthur later called them a gang of revolutionaries bent on taking over the Govt.
"Posse WHO?" Army serving on a Border can do anything that is condoned by Govt.
It's "IN THE BOOK" Down memory lane for all.
VofReason posted at 1:03 pm on Wed, Nov 16, 2011.
This makes perfect sense and kinda sounds like what most common sense people have been saying for a long time. However, most people also realize that "Immigration reform" is code for we don't want anyone checking anyone ever and want open borders. Oh yes and we want the "rich" to pay more in taxes for all of the costs of having low skill and low wage immigrants here.
Dale Whiting posted at 1:34 am on Thu, Nov 17, 2011.
TeaPartier,
The underlying falicy of your statistical argument lies with it not surveying all illegal aliens, not just those who were criminals before crossing the border. Remember, even Willy Horton understood where the money is.
bobunf posted at 9:22 am on Mon, Nov 21, 2011.
TeaPartier doesn't reference his source ("LA Times" without date and name of article is not a source). What he posted is an unsupported assertion.
Here are facts supported by reputable authority:
Bureau of Justice Statistics, Appendix table 6, the number of non-citizens held in state or federal prisons on June 30, 2006 totaled 91,426 including both legal and illegal immigrants. This represents about 6% of the total prison population.
US Census Bureau’s report: "Foreign-Born Population of the United States, Current Population Survey," immigrants, both legal and illegal, represent about 13% of the population. The incarceration rate of immigrants is therefore about half that of native born Americans.
As for the jails, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics Correctional Surveys, Jail Inmates at Midyear series, 1998-2006 in 2006 there were:
170 non-Hispanic Whites in jails per 100,000 non-Hispanic Whites
815 Blacks per 100,000 Blacks
283 Hispanics of any race per 100,000 Hispanics of any race.
Both the immigrant and Latino populations are much younger and more male than the non-Hispanic White population. Ninety year old females are much less likely to commit crimes than 20 year old males no matter the category. The effect of this discrepancy can be seen by restricting the analysis to males aged 18 to 40 - the vast majority of prisoners.
From the National Bureau of Economic Research “Working Paper No. 13229” issued in July 2007 by Kristin F. Butcher and Anne Morrison Piehl, Table 2 “Fraction of the Population Institutionalized” from the Integrated Public Use Microdata Series of the U.S. Census. The data are for both legal and illegal immigrant males aged 18 to 40 inclusive and includes those in local jails, as well as state and federal prisons:
Native Born 3.4%
Immigrants 0.7%
Hispanic Immigrants 0.8%
Most of the immigrants are incarcerated only for immigration violations and associated crimes such as forgery and perjury. Even then, immigrants, legal and illegal, Hispanic or not, are less than one-fourth as likely to be incarcerated as the native born.
From this one must conclude that immigrants commit crimes at a far lower rate than native born Americans
As for the issue of Spanish. It is a marvelous asset to the US to have people within our borders with are bilingual. This great talent is a blessing to be celebrated. TeaPartier appears to feel otherwise. The distressing fact is that Latinos, as all other immigrant groups in the US, lose their heritage language within a very few generations. Here are some supported facts:
From the 2002 National Survey of Latinos, conducted jointly by the Pew Hispanic Center and the Kaiser Family Foundation at http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/Generational-Differences-2002-National-Survey-of-Latinos-Survey-Brief.pdf
Primary Language Among Latinos:
Spanish- English-
Dominant Bilingual Dominant
1st Generation 72% 24% 4%
2nd Generation 7% 47% 46%
3rd+ Generation 0% 22% 78%
I would refute the other inaccurate assertions in TeaPartier's post but the above facts in and of themselves clearly indicate the quality of TeaPartier's unsupported assertions.