Twenty-seven dead. Twenty of them little kids, who as President Obama said, won’t see their graduations, won’t get a job, won’t get married. Murdered in childhood.
Unthinkable, of course. But the unthinkable all too often becomes the real. As it did in Connecticut recently.
And after our horror subsides, after the tears dry, we throw up our hands and say, “What can we do, what can we do?”
Some, of course, will say, “More police in public places.” Others might say, “More guns.” Still others will say, “More gun control.”
But really, what can we do? The genie is out of the bottle. We are Weaponized America. And we have legislators cooking up new ways to become even more weaponized, under the belief that more guns in circulation will make us safer from guns.
As is, there is an estimated 270,000,000 guns privately owned in the U.S., more than one for every adult in the country. This, of course, makes us No. 1 in the world for gun ownership. And that translates into about 10,000 gun murders a year, according to FBI statistics.
And now, we’ve added 27 more.
Let’s be realistic. Thanks to our freedoms, the NRA and its politicians terrified of the NRA’s financial clout, and thanks to the absolutists who defend the ownership of any gun, we can’t suddenly wave our hands and make guns disappear.
Nor do we want to. We believe in gun ownership, for protection and for hunting and for practice. As much as some might like, we shouldn’t go to some draconian method of outlawing guns. It’s wrong and impossible anyhow.
And we can’t -- no matter how much we wish -- stop the madman intent on murder. That madman always has the element of surprise on his side. Only in retrospect do we usually see the trail of signs indicating his intent. And defenders of guns are right about our culture: We celebrate violence. One only has to look at the video games our boys play incessantly, leaving them obsessed with that world, a world where violence is fine, the way to solve problems. No wonder that we see troubled young men lashing out like they do.
But here’s what I don’t understand: While we can’t solve the gun-related murders, can’t we make it more difficult?
I don’t understand why we allow assault rifles to be a part of Weaponized America. I don’t believe they’re necessary. I don’t believe they make people safer. But I do believe they make murder easier.
And why do we allow cop-killer bullets to be sold in our country? There’s a reason for that label, after all. They are only for killing.
And why do we allow the huge magazines to be legal? Why do we need unlimited magazine sizes?
And why do we here in Arizona allow unlimited numbers of gun purchases, knowing full well that our state is the drug cartels’ supermarket for guns? Why do we here in Arizona allow private gun sellers at gun shows to avoid doing background checks on buyers?
Each time we have a tragedy like that in Connecticut, we hear from the absolutists that “guns don’t kill people; people kill people.”
And that, of course, is true.
But Weaponized America makes the slaughter so much easier.
It sickens me.
Mike McClellan posted at 7:41 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
FYI: I wrote this when initial reports said that the shooter had used two pistols and had left his rifle in the car outside the school.
Zord posted at 7:50 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
A. What a whiner
B. What a coward
What sickens me is this soft-headed pea brain hides behind this tragedy. I bet he thinks "No one will dare criticize me, not with all the children dead!"
Well thankfully, (the murderer) didn't chain the doors and set the school on fire. Could have been 80+ people lost.
But mainly I am mad that this loser (the author of this story) is using this as a stage for his circus
Ednopers posted at 8:00 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
I read your article with an open mind. I was in agreement with you until you talked about "cop killer bullets" and tell me what is a "huge magazine" is? Also, you state that you believe "assault rifles" are needed. Let me ask you, if assault rifles magically dissappeared, would you be okay with explosives or perhaps mass stabbings? 17 dead in car bomb in Pakistan, many injured in China from mass stabbing. Ill offer a better suggestion, ban private ownership of cars, as it seems to me, these killings are assisted by a privately owned vehicle. Surely, this tragedy would have been prevented if only the killer had not been able to get to the crime scene. After all, the right to private ownership of vehicles is not in the Constitution, but being able to defend yourself is. Thank you.
Ednopers posted at 8:03 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Sorry, this format doesnt allow for editing. You stated assault rifle WERE NOT needed. But please inform the public what the cop killer bullets are as well as your definition of a huge magazine is as well. Thanks
bubba posted at 8:05 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Zord ....Thank you for your insightful, well thought out, informative comment on this serious topic. (sarcasm switch now returned to off position).
LifeInTheRealWorld posted at 8:09 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
He had been turned down for purchase of a firearm. The laws worked. Anyone intent on doing harm will find a way. In China recently a man killed 23 armed with only a knife. They have had a rash of mass school children murders in China and all used simply a knife. A bomb is easy to make. If you want to end this senseless violence, first stop playing it up and making it such a big deal in the newspapers. Media contributes significantly. When I grew up and we had riots they were front page news ... but after a while became common place and no longer got the front page treatment. Just another riot. Then the frequency of riots dropped. No more publicity. At home is where gun control needs to be taught. That is where all values need to be taught. You see here a failure of the parent(s). I grew up in a home with a lot of firearms. My father and mother hunted to feed all the kids when money was tight. All of us in the family were taught to handle a firearm properly and to respect them and never point them at anyone, even unloaded. I have never in my life felt motivated, even in time of anger, to get a firearm and shoot someone. The family unit has suffered greatly since no fault divorce. Single parent households, children raised by mostly women, the majority of which do not like firearms, do not instill good values regarding firearms (if any) in the children they raise. Go ahead and molycoddle your children, make sure they are never spanked, that they get what they want always and that the schools never teach them any values either. You will get more of this kind of thing. All values start in the home. The fall of America and almost all the societal problems seen today, is directly related to the failure of the family unit. Everyone reading this who has ever raised a child is to blame for what is happening, and the only way to fix it is to go back to a strong family unit with good moral values.
fez posted at 8:18 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
I wonder what an "assault rifle with a huge magazine" would have done in the hands of a Jew in 1939 Germany? SAVED HIS LIFE! and prevented WWII, maybe............. Absolute power corrupts ABSOLUTELY
bubba posted at 8:22 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
The most dangerous aspect of these assault rifles is the capacity of ammunition. Deer hunting rifles are restricted to 5 rounds. Why shouldn't humans have the same chance? As a gun owner myself, I realized the NRA of today isn't the same as it was 30 years ago. Their agenda isn't representing hunters and sportsman anymore, They represent the manufacturers of weapons that have no place in hunting, that's were the moneys at for them. We, as responsible gun owners,need to step up and support sane solutions to the carnage that is happening in the country. The second amendment calls for a WELL REGULATED militia.
Reasonable posted at 8:34 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
In China, a man STABBED 22 elementary school children on the same day as this tragedy. None of them died. Whereas in this tragedy with a gun, 20 children died. I wonder why there was a difference?
A previous commenter tried saying that all 22 children stabbed died. Wrong. NONE of them did. Stop spreading misinformation and admit that there is no logical reason why the average citizen should be equipped with an assault rifle. How many more people have to die for you to get that through your thick head?
Ednopers posted at 8:40 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
To bubba: SO you relate hunting animals to killing humans? Right? Also, your argument is invalid once you relate the Second Amendment to hunting. Hor anyone who believes the 2nd is about hunting, you fail on so many levels.....
mikedurham posted at 9:07 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Mr. McClellan, Thank you for putting your valid points on the table. I see that the NRA minions of flamers have hit you with their red herrings, distorted logic, and their total disregard for the loss of 20 children and 8 adults. I support you conclusions and your insights. Please stand firm against the aberrant behavior.
Rich posted at 9:08 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
NSC Stats on accidental deaths:
1. Motor Vehicle 37.5%
2. Poison 19.5%
3.Falls 16.3%
4. Other (non transporation) 13.9%
5. Drowning 3.0%
6. Fire/smoke 2.6%
7. Other (Transporation) 2.6%
8.Medical error 2.2%
9. Nature, acts of God 1.8%
10. Firearms 0.7%
So we are talking here about less than one percent already. What percentage of less than one percent occurs because of an assault rifle or a large clip? Frankly the whole thing is just a descent into silliness. Because guns kill more bombastically, the media makes such deaths a gigantic media event, and people like Mike chime in with silliness. You might want to insist the government do it's job and regulate the militia, so everyone knows and understands guns, as it is obvious Mike doesn't. Maybe cut it to less than a half of one percent. Want to save lives? Hop on doctors, their mistakes kill over three times as many people, and we are cracking open the piggy bank with Obamacare to dump money on them.
SculptorDad posted at 9:18 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
It's the psychotropic medications; I wonder if he had suddenly stopped taking them? Nothing to do with guns, but Big Pharm wants you to think that.
IAB posted at 9:42 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
If you are so worried about keeping people safe.... why are cars manufactured without interlocking devices that stop drunk drivers?
The second amendment is NOT about hunting!!!!
I find it very telling that all of the mass shootings happen in gun free zones. or that all of the shooters were on anti depressants.
bubba posted at 9:43 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Rich ...The mass murder of 27 innocent victims, 20 of them ages 6 & 7 years old, in Ct. were not accidental deaths. Your list of stats is just another red herring. As usual with most debates of late, the two extremes will battle it out and no room for negotiation. It's all one way or the other. And this time the gun ban people may win out if sane compromises aren't considered. Sane compromises will not weaken the second amendment.
bubba posted at 9:46 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Ednopers ...Hunting humans is exactly what these mass murderers do. What else would you call it????
IAB posted at 9:55 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Bubba how many current laws did the shooter break? Which one of the "sane" compromises will stop the next one?
bubba posted at 10:10 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
LifeinTheRealWorld... "My father and mother hunted to feed all the kids when money was tight"...Did they hunt with rifles that had 40 round clips? I'm sure by the sound of it your parents did a good job of raising their kids with a respect for firearms. The discussion isn't about taking guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, but a real world solution to the carnage that is we have seen lately.
Ednopers posted at 10:13 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
To bubba: Okay then. I propose we allow law enforcement to only have 5 rounds in their own guns. After all, police rarely if ever engage in more than person during a gun fight. What makes the weapons used in law enforcement any more important than ones used in self defense of citizens? Should we limit the media to only use 10 words to make a point? Maybe with a 10 word limit, the media will less likely be able to spread more mis-information and outright lies? Should the Westboro Baptist Church only be allowed to protest dead children for 1 minute? Should citizens only be able to vote once per year? The Constitution gives us the freedom, even if you dont agree with everything in it.
bubba posted at 10:40 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Ednopers..Again, your response takes it to extreme nonsense. Law enforcement and military are not included in this conversation of REASONABLE attempts to curb the mass murders we've endured. Try to focus your statements on the subject without the red herrings that you put forth. If your attitude is to do nothing, then let the blood be on your hands. And when the extreme "ban all guns crowd" gain ground over the extreme "from my dead cold hands crowd" we will all lose.
LifeInTheRealWorld posted at 11:06 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
To Reasonable, The following facts were gotten from Wikipedia.
A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People's Republic of China began in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 21 dead and some 90 injured. I bet some of those injured were pretty horrific injuries too. Feel better now that they don't have guns there and only used a knife?
LifeInTheRealWorld posted at 11:13 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
To Bubba: The real world solution is to get your act together as a parent and raise your children properly, with respect for firearms and your fellow human beings who inhabit this earth with you. Anything less will fail. The government is incapable of fixing anything. All they can do is make things worse by mucking around trying to fix things and make life more costly and worse for all of us, removing more of our rights in the process. Family values is where it's at. And it doesn't require religion to have them. Tell me what kind of family values you are going to find in a single parent household with 3 children who have a mother or father who is a tweaker getting high all the time and who is more worried about their next 'fix' or who they can go out with that night than their children. You expect those children to have values? Right! And how many families are there in this country that fit that profile? There is the future of your country in a nutshell ...
IAB posted at 11:21 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Sounds good bubba after all a police force with military supplies and an unarmed society worked so well for Germany. Because there is NO violent crime in Britain either. Crime will magically disappear when guns are gone.Just curious how the "ban all guns' crowd intends to confiscate the guns from the 'from our cold dead hands' crowd' ? Let me guess they will call somebody with guns.
bubba posted at 11:27 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
LifeInTheRealWorld.....Yeah, just think how much more proficient these murderers would have been with high capacity firearms. Just more red herring diversions.
bubba posted at 11:41 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
IAB I'm not talking about unarming law abiding citizens. You are not comprehending what I've written. Please re-read my comments and understand my position before before you comment.
Rich posted at 11:45 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
"REASONABLE attempts to curb the mass murders we've endured. "
1) Better mental health care with school screenings.
2) Gun education and training part of high school curriculums
3) Well regulated militia with training
4) End bans of guns in certain areas, there is a reason schools are targeted
5) Tighter controls of psycho active drugs
6) Stop the fanatic reaction to psychopaths and remain reasonable
7) Stop making shootings media events
8) Insist the government fulfill its duty to regulate the militia under the second amendment and stop abridging it, usually to the point of turning our schools into killing fields.
JMJ posted at 11:50 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
0.7 % of accidental deaths are attributed to firearms.
But, how about "purposeful" deaths attributed to firearms?
That's 100% death.
Try to console 100% of those grieving parents whose kids were murdered in cold blood that they're children are part of less than 100% of any statistic.
Assault weapons with large magazines [because, even if that isn't the 'correct term'] have no place in the hands of people intent upon slaughtering innocent children. Large magazines...multiple rounds...
Splitting hairs over what happened sickens me. These kids were babies. Innocent babies. Their teachers, a group constantly vilified in the comments section of the EVT, were protecting those babies.
We defend the right to bear arms. Who defends the innocents? Wrong place, wrong time? Look at your children and your grandchildren. Does any of this outrageous event make any sense to anyone?
Slabside posted at 1:29 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
@ JMJ, " Who defends the innocents?"
http://www.washingtonguardian.com/washingtons-school-security-failure
bubba posted at 3:15 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Slab......Are you inffering Sandy Hook Elementary School had armed security on campus before the School Security Funds lapsed? And weren't Republicans pushing for slashing back programs? I tried Googling for a Congressional vote count on this to see who supported it, but found nothing.
VofReason posted at 3:15 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
I agree with several points. Seems like there are some things that should be limited from availability. That is not firearms in general. This like many of these comes down to who should have been responsible in the situation. If your kid is a loose cannon, you probably shouldn't have a Bushmaster rifle and ammo in your house. Unfortunatly, his mother paid the ultimate price for the mistake and so to did these poor children and their families. Responsibility starts at home.
tweell posted at 3:20 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Ah, the progressive mantra of 'never letting a serious crisis go to waste' again rears its' ugly head. Mr. McClellan hopes that he can use this crisis to do away with 'cop-killing bullets'. The slaughter of children and women in a criminal protection zone (excuse me, gun free zone) must lead to a cop-killing bullet ban, according to Mr. McClellan . Facts? Logic? What are those? I'm a journalist!
Next, the reasonable compromise. Mr. McClellan wants to ban large capacity magazines (carefully leaving the correct magazine size unstated). Sorry, but making large capacity magazines isn't hard. Banning large capacity magazines will do nothing to solve the problem.
"Ban the assault rifle!" Gee, that worked so well the last time, didn't it? No solution here either.
That's the point, though. Mr. McClellan isn't interested in fixing the problem. Progressives made the problem in the first place. Progressives emptied and shut insane asylums where people like Lanza were kept, saying that it violated their civil rights. Progressives pushed no-fault divorce, leading to a divorce rate of 50% and a generation of boys becoming men with no idea what being a man is (like Lanza). Progressives made schools criminal protection zones, keeping the teachers from being able to protect their students and defend themselves.
And when the inevitable comes to pass, when a mentally ill young man with a single mother snaps and slaughters women and children, you use this tragedy to push more of your agenda.
You sicken me.
bubba posted at 3:23 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
The gunman in the Connecticut shooting rampage was carrying an arsenal of hundreds of rounds of especially deadly ammunition — enough to kill just about every student in the school if given enough time, authorities said Sunday, raising the specter that the bloodbath could have been far worse.
Adam Lanza shot himself in the head just as he heard police drawing near to the classroom where he was slaughtering helpless children, but he had more ammunition at the ready in the form of multiple, high-capacity clips each capable of holding 30 bullets.
Gov. Dannel Malloy said the shooter decided to kill himself when he heard police closing in about 10 minutes into the attack.
“We surmise that it was during the second classroom episode that he heard responders coming and apparently at that decided to take his own life,” Malloy said
Authorities said they found multiple 30-round magazines and hundreds of unused bullets at the school, which enrolled about 670 students.
“There was a lot of ammo, a lot of clips,” said state police Lt. Paul Vance. “Certainly a lot of lives were potentially saved.”
bubba posted at 3:52 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
VofReason...You've nailed it.
IAB posted at 4:23 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Bubba you do realize a standard magazine is 20 rounds. What made the ammo he had so 'especially dangerous?
Accuracy posted at 5:14 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Our nation mourns over the terrible tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, on December 14, 2012, where twenty children and six adults were brutally massacred. Such evil is hard to understand and shakes our sense of security. As the nation wants to know why this breakdown in our society is happening, and understand how this could happen.
The Sandy Hook Elementary tragedy has sparked conversations about tougher gun laws, and Democrat Lawmakers will use this enormous tragedy as the tag necessary to advance gun confiscation legislation and push for nationwide gun control.
The massacre in Newtown, Connecticut has also sparked conversation about a search for the truth. Acting on the mind – such as; mental health, mental disorder, and psychotropic drugs. One of the common side effects of psychiatric drugs is violent outbursts.
As more information about the shooter Adam Lanza comes to light, it's clear that his mother struggled for years to help him with his emotional and behavioral problems, and he was on medication.
The nation should not ignore all other potential reasons for the crime – so we can fix it and move on with our lives without fear.
Cerulean posted at 5:44 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
I too think that VofReason has a reasonable post; as does Mike McClellan, mikedurham, JMJ, bubba and others.
LITR W said,
“Go ahead and molycoddle your children, make sure they are never spanked, that they get what they want always and that the schools never teach them any values either. You will get more of this kind of thing.” Do you think violence can be cured with routine spankings? Nonsense.
JnksMommy posted at 5:50 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
While this is a senseless tragedy, and my hearts go out to the victims. There are a few things we need to remember. We should be focusing on the fact that it happened NOT on the fact that a gun was used. Had the shooter used a bomb instead we would not be sitting here discussing gun control right now. The weapon of choice is irrelevant, what is relevant is the fact that someone murdered 27 people.
1. Restricting magazine sizes is really not going to change anything. If a person is trained they can shoot two 10 round magazines just as fast as one 20 round magazine. The size does not matter.
2. Gun safety should begin at home. Parents should take the time out of their day to sit with their children and help them understand what a gun is, what it does, and what not to do with it. Also explain to them at guns are not toys.
3. Guns do not kill, people kill. The shooter woke up and made a conscious decision that he was going to kill people that day. He just happened to have access to a gun. He could have very well chosen to create a bomb, he could have used a knife. The list of weapons he could have used is endless.
4. Video games, music etc is not to blame for this. As a parent it is your job to teach your children that just cause they saw it on a movie, in a game, or heard it on a song does not mean that it's ok. Teach them the difference between entertainment & make believe, and the real world.
Poorman posted at 6:46 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
No amount of new laws etc will do anything about this tragedy, But do to media and politcal pressure etc new and usless laws will be passed.The laws however will affect the collctors,hunters,target shooters ability to get or purchase ammo,parts.guns,magazines etcetc..Due to media hype,miss information prices have valready started to rise rapidlly, Alot of this can be laid on the media,as everytime one of these tragedys has happened they really over due. it. So the nut sees this,and( unfortunely there will be more),the new nut wants to have even more attention so he or she will try to make it bigger so they will get more attenton from th good ole media types, they are not stupid,nuts yes stupid no,
JMJ posted at 7:53 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
http://www.washingtonguardian.com/washingtons-school-security-failure
@Slabside, with your gun icon, you cite Obama's administration for cutting school safety programs. Aren't you one of the folks in here who is constantly saying "no big government" and the government cannot be responsible for everything?
The NRA, mostly a Republican lobby, will defend to its last breath the "right" to bear arms. I defend people's right to bear arms. I do not defend people's right to bear assault weapons.
Nor, do I defend this helicopter mother's right to raise her mentally ill son's self-esteem [another bugaboo of a rich parent who could stay home and basically imprison her mentally ill son and build his self-esteem artificially, in an unreal environment].
There are deep issues here involving gun control [or lack thereof], mental illness, and, DRUMROLL, home-schooling.
Yes, the perp was home-schooled. And I see so many comments about home-schooling kids due to this episode.
All the finger-pointing in the world is not going to bring back 20 dead babies. We, as a nation, need to define "freedom" a little better, and go back to "for the common good".
JMJ posted at 7:54 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
To continue due to the stupid filters on this site:
Nothing good came of this. Blame the administration for budget cuts surrounding school safety. The assault weapon legislation went by the wayside during W's administration, by the way, not Obama's administration.
Rest in peace little babies while us idiot adults finger point and never solve a blasted [the profanity Nazi didn't like dam ] thing because it infringes on our "freedom", and, God forbid, our self-esteem.
Heywood_Jablome posted at 9:55 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
QUICK! When was the greatest school massacre in American history? HINT: You weren't alive when it happened and there's a very good chance that your parents weren't either.
Google: Bath School Massacre
Be alert....the Socialist facists are coming for our guns. One trained school employee, armed with a .22, could have stopped the Sandy Hook shooter. An armed pilot on each of 4 airplanes would have stopped 9/11 cold.
This isn't about the slaughter of innocents. This is about the ever expanding reach of government into our everyday lives.
God bless the NRA and G*d da-mn Liberalism!!!!
k33j88 posted at 7:45 am on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
In reference to your last comment, mikey boy, Your delusional outlook on what a "perfect society" should resemble. Gun free zones where even the criminal and mentally challenged would play by the same rules law-abiding citizens live by. Typical, leftist, marxist ideology-----this sickens me.
Cerulean posted at 7:59 am on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
“Confusion about religion in the classroom” Excellent blog Mike. [thumbup][thumbup]
http://azcvoices.com/politics/2012/12/18/confusion-about-religion-in-the-classroom/
G A Custer posted at 9:50 am on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
"Never let a good crisis go to waste". Saul Alinsky via Rahm Emanuel. We all are sickened by the tragedy of Newton and Aurora, and Safeway parking lot in Tucson and Columbine, and University of Texas Tower sniper, and Virgina Tech slaughter and Ted Bundy (used rocks and firewood to do his killing) and John Wayne Gacy, strangled and suffocated his victims, and Jeffry Dohmer, cut his victims up, and DC sniper. The list of serial killers is and their methods of killing goes on and on. Their tools are everything from rocks, fertilizer, guns, knives, airplanes and beatings to commit their crimes. How does government register a rock or stick of firewood? The sickening part of any of these atrocities is the fodder it creates for media. Are we as a society so desperate for sensationalism that we are engulfed week to week in media coverages from Michael Jackson to Baseline killers and bombings in Lybia? Is there a vicarious tingling among so called journalists that hunger for these crises knowing the public is anxiously waiting to see what the next event will be? Our "reporters" it seems are like some people that go to car races, not to see the speeding cars but hoping to see crashes.We don't have to worry though, just pick up the phone and call Washington and listen to the voice mail.
Slabside posted at 11:51 am on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
JMJ, please read this:
http://www.claytoncramer.com/popular/Impacts.htm
Rich posted at 12:01 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
The problem with schools, and why they are targeted so often is people like the EVT columnist Mike McClellan who argues vociferously for gun free zones there. If you examine it, with a school or college, it is a bit ridiculous, because it is unenforceable, schools aren't protected by prison like walls and armed guards. Hence the 'gun free' zone becomes a killing field and an easy target. This was pointed out to you when the gun ban at ASU was discussed right here in the Tribune and you attacked the idea to the point of extreme sarcasm. It is not the weaponization of America that is the problem, but rather the naive ideas of people like you that a mere governmental fiat will halt a psychopath. So can it be stopped?
Sure, the key is in the second amendment, a well-regulated militia. If gun education is started in high school, by eighteen people are familiar with weapons, then a mandatory course in them to secure citizenship and a vote, gives you a basis for a militia that can be an effective force. The president, governor, school board president simply calls on the members to carry their guns until the crisis is believed to have past. Yes, it creates a force that is stronger than the police which has its drawbacks, but none as great as the deaths of twenty children.
Fear, like your fear of guns is a greater killer than the guns themselves. If you want to place a bit of blame here, look in the mirror and assign yourself a percentage of it. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King. In a gun free zone the man with the gun is.
Mike McClellan posted at 4:17 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
The above"solution" is inane. Here's why.
Read what he says: "The president, governor, school board president simply calls on the members to carry their guns until the crisis is believed to have past. "
So the school board president of Sandy Hook schools calls on members to carry their guns, uh, when? Since there was no warning the shooter would go to the elementary school, the governor or school board president wouldn't be aware of a threat.
So, that authority could call out the "militia," but by then, 27 innocent people are dead.
Nice way of "stopping" the slaughter.
Mike McClellan posted at 4:38 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
By the way, Columbine H.S. had an armed police officer on campus the day of that massacre, a 15-year veteran of the county sheriff's office.
Along with an unarmed security officer.
Both confronted the shooters, the armed officer firing at Harris. After, of course, both shooters had killed 13 and wounded many more.
As did the Clackamas Town Center, the mall that last Tuesday would've been a bloodbath had the shooter's semiautomatic not jammed. Armed security officers were present but didn't get to the area in time to confront the shooter before he shot himself.
As did the mall where the Aurora theater shootings took place. Again, SWAT teams got to the shooter before the mall security did.
Rich posted at 4:52 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
Mike, I would assume that after such incidents starting anytime after Columbine the crisis would be evident and would remain until the thought of attacking a school, especially after a couple attempts wouldn't be so obvious to a psychopath. You know Mike, it's people like you who cause these things, who create opportunities and open the door wide to them. Making more law won't do a thing, educating people will do a lot. The government fulfilling it's responsibilities will do a lot.
What is inane, Mike, is that, instead of working toward, looking at a solution, you have to find some twisted way it's wrong. That is why Liberalism is doomed in the long run, too holier than thou and cannot admit it's mistakes. It has to have its holy writ followed, and something about any other solution has to wrong, stupid or ignorant. And that has to be the case with anyone who disagrees with your critically thought out, well-researched thoughts.
Mike McClellan posted at 5:25 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
Nice job of avoiding defending your so-called solution.
So, your militia would be called out for what, at least 13 years now?
And where would this militia be stationed?
And who would pay them?
And what happens to their regular jobs?
And how much tactical training would they receive?
And who would pay for that?
And where would the funds come from?
And how many stationed at each school?
And armed with what?
And when would the militia stand down?
This is no solution; it's inane. And instead of attempting to defend it, you attack your critics.
I'm all for SRO's at schools, but that comes with a price that our legislature has so far been unwilling to pay. But putting armed security in every school will not stop a killer, unless that security is at the exact spot the killer enters.
Ever been to an elementary school here in AZ? Or a junior high or high school? Each is easily entered, with often multiple entrances? If the shooter has a smaller magazine, he has to reload -- the history's been that these shooters aren't exactly SWAT-proficient. Take away their larger magazines and their semiautomatic rifles, and you can lessen the slaughter. Add an armed security guard to the school diminishes the slaughter as well. But someone has to pay for that, and here in AZ, the legislature's cut that funding.
There is no logical reason for large gun clips or to own military-style semi-automatic rifles. The Aurora and Connecticut shooters had a rifle that held a 100-round clip that came out at 60 times a minute.
Who needs to own a rifle that does this?
samkat posted at 8:26 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
I am waiting for Mike to announce his candidacy as a flaming left wing liberal democrat. His articles seem to have the same bent these days.
Rich posted at 10:15 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
Mike,
You are a bit moronic, but in five posts I get censored. Nice to have the censors protect you, Apparently the EVT thinks I am selling a commercial product and labels any intelligent answer 'SPAM' Congrats you've found a place where your ignorance is protected. Enjoy it, it is said the moron is the happiest of men.
k33j88 posted at 6:48 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
It has become apparent that even those who use military style rifles with large capacity magazines for recreational sport as a hobby are mentally challenged as well. If McClellan did his research, he'd find out that there is a long form with relevant questions to mental history, drug use, and a criminal background check to determine eligibility to buy said weapon. A phone call to a federal database is also implemented to insure accuracy on the long form. Get a grip mike, there are level-headed, responsible, law-abiding "assault weapon" owners among us.
smartvoter posted at 7:44 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
Mike -- I just posted in the Dec. 19th vent statistics from the F.B.I. that showed there were 80,000,000 guns in private ownership and now you show that #AT 270,000,000 I guess it's true that OBAMA and the Deomcrats are the best gun salesmen in the country.
I'm tired of hereing you LIBERALS whine about assault rifles. Just because they look exactly like the military weapons does not make them the same, only the military and police forces are aloud to have assault rifles. The guns that we are able to buy are simply semi-automatic which means you have to pull the trigger for every bullet fired.
Those guns look intimidating but there no different then a semi-automatic shotgun or a pistol.
You can try and legislate guns all you want you will never get them away from the criminals only the honest ones, and then America is doomed.
I don't know if it's still true today but years ago I read an article about Switzerland and how every boy in that country turning 18 must enlist in the military for a minimum of 2 years and at the end of service all veterans take their weapons with them so there is a gun in every home. The crime rate there is close to zero.
A gun in the hand of as many as possible is a pretty good deterant for would be criminals don't you think?
Leon Ceniceros posted at 9:00 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
MIKE,
AT LEAST HAVE THE...............COMMON DECENCY............TO WAIT UINTI THE VICTIMS OF THIS HORRIBLE TRAGEDY HAVE ALL BEEN BURIED BEFORE YOU GO ON YOUR........LEFTIST-LIBERAL RANT.
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT "HUMAN DECENCY" IS.....GO TO DEFINITIONS ON THE WEB.
Cerulean posted at 9:13 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
smartvoter,
I am tired of you NINCOMPUPS whine about your precious murder weapons. Where does it end with you? Should we allow people to carry hand grenades and drop them on situations they don’t like? Are you that dumb?
Rich posted at 9:14 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
I'll try again
So, your militia would be called out for what, at least 13 years now? Perhaps, if the shooting tail off so would the militia carrying
And where would this militia be stationed? Stationed? Do you have a clue as to what a militia is? They live at home, go about business as usual.
And who would pay them? Are you totally clueless? no one
And what happens to their regular jobs? They do them
And how much tactical training would they receive? High School and a camp at some point to weed out the unfit and confirm competence.
And who would pay for that? The Feds as per the Second Amendment
And where would the funds come from? Under Obama God only knows and maybe he doesn't.
And how many stationed at each school? As many as work there normally, they just work armed.
And armed with what? Whatever they have and trained with
And when would the militia stand down? When they felt they were no longer needed.
smartvoter, the Swiss have a well-regulated militia which is what we need, our government however has fallen down on the job and we get people like Mike who on top of being clueless about guns want to make rules for them.
smartvoter posted at 9:32 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
Cerulean-- Hand gernades are again only for the military. Of course I don't want the puplic to have access to that type of weapons.
To think like that would make me dumber than a liberal.
Why don't you explain to us here how haveing all citizens armed is more dangerous than haveing just the criminals armed, please explain!!
Cerulean posted at 10:09 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
smartvoter,
I do not know what the statistics are, but the type of mass murder that is now in question is fairly rare. Violent crime, in general, is fairly rare. Most people are not violent and they will not carry or use a gun because they do not live in constant paranoia of young men in their 20's.
You nor I can take away a young mans desire to kill - but, as with hand grenades, we can make his killing tools less accessible.
Mike McClellan posted at 1:16 pm on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
Apparently, Rich, you don't understand what a militia is. But continue your narrative.
By the way, given your explanation above, the militia will be called down after the "crisis" passes, waiting until the next "crisis" happens.
Perfect.
smartvoter posted at 3:22 pm on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
Cerulean- I'm not sure that you answered my ??
please explain how new gun control laws prohibiting law abiding citizens from their constitutional rights to defend themselves and others if needed is going to help when you know for a fact that criminals will not abide by the laws anymore than they do with the current laws? What will another useless law prove?
Rich posted at 4:15 pm on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
i do understand Mike. And I understand that it can act as an army, as police and as guards. If your problem is that a bunch of well-intentioned nutballs have turned your schools into killing fields, you can solve it by asking the militiamen who work in and around your schools to come to work armed. If you have regulated the militia well and are sure of their knowledge of their guns, and safety, it becomes impossible to shoot 27 people in a school, and also provides a deterrent to shooting in a school. Stop seizing on things out of context to try and make a point, it's an infantile way to argue and poor dialectic.
As a stop gap measure, as you introduce firearm knowledge into high schools, train militia members who work in the schools in gun safety and gun use and ask them to be armed while working. If you train people well in high schools, in a few years you won't have that problem.
downtownresident posted at 2:53 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
Brought out all the crazies, didn't ya Mike.
My only beef is the use of the term 'assault' rifle. to assign the stigma of blame. Assault rifles are simply repeating rifles. Nothing more, nothing less. Automatic military versions excepted.
A more appropriate term for this weapon would be high capacity repeating rifle.
There is no rational reason to need a magazine with a capacity of more than 5 rounds, for civilian use.
Firearms manufacturers and dealers are laughing all the way to the bank, because of the fools out there that are buying this junk.
valleynative posted at 10:36 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.
I didn't know there were still people who believed the myth of "cop killer" bullets.
We clearly need to educate the voters.