In his letter, Don Bevineau bemoans the loss of union membership since 1945. I wonder if it has occurred to him that unions have been their own worst enemy. Unions reward tenure rather than performance.
Unions drive up the cost of manufacturing which drives industry to more profitable and less restrictive locations. Unions use members’ money to support political candidates with no regard for the individual member’s wishes. Union policy encourages mediocrity without fear of financial loss.
It must be understood that when union leaders demand more and more in wages and benefits the cost of living goes up for us all. The poor get poorer and the unions get richer. When union leaders cannot force industry to cede to their demands, they will demand that their members strike. When a strike occurs only the union members suffer financial loss; union leaders continue to draw CEO wages. I am in complete support of unionization of individual shops so that those employees have redress when unfairness occurs.
They then can decide upon the wisdom of a strike.
Perhaps there is a logical reason why fewer and fewer choose to join unions.
Lowell Popham
Mesa
Dale Whiting posted at 5:26 am on Wed, Jun 13, 2012.
Again,
I agree with Willie. In my business school, we had no formal majors, only informal ones. Those interested in making money hand over fist took advanced finance and banking courses. Those were the days of the likes of Mitt Romney and Donald Trump. And see what those finance majors got for us, a Wall Street melt down.
I studied production and operations management. That field died when management moved production overseas. That NLRB mediator professor of mine observed that management played dead allowing unions to run up labor costs so that the move to "right to work" states and then out side the US [Mexico first] seemed justified to share holders. Now less and less of the Henry Ford middle class remains and more and more greed surfaces on Wall Street. When the Cold War was won, it became financially safe to move production to China. Reagan's lasting accomplishment was to make the world safe for overseas manufacturing, not democracy.
Abstract01 posted at 9:53 pm on Tue, Jun 12, 2012.
AZWillie, I don't know what you mean by envy and hatred on the part of free-will workers. I have never witnessed violence and intimidation by non-union workers against union members.
Can you say the same of your side of the fence?
I would also point out that a union members is just as good a worker as any other--when he has incentive to do so, and when he is not being intimidated by the hired thugs of union management (aka organized crime).
Organized crime?? there is another union in itself!!!
Arizona Willie posted at 11:43 am on Tue, Jun 12, 2012.
Dale, the war on unions began in ernest with the election of Reagan. He not only fired all the air traffic controllers he also brought about the largest tax increase in history when they took away the deduction for interest during his administration. Prior to Reagan you could deduct all the interest you paid on car loans and credit cards or anything at all where you paid interest. They cut it down to only deducting interest on your home. That was a HUGE tax increase on the middle class.
And, during his administration, the philosophy that GREED was GOOD became prevalent throughout business schools and resulted in the exportation of all the jobs they COULD export and the turning a blind eye to invading illegals whom businesses often recruit in countries south of the border.
Republicans will pass laws against illegal immigration but will NEVER FUND ENFORCEMENT. They talk out of both sides of their mouth. They will make a big show of being against illegal immigration but will not put any money in stopping it.
Dale Whiting posted at 11:30 am on Tue, Jun 12, 2012.
I agree with Lowell. Unions have been their worst enemy. Buy management takes a very close second.
And I agree with Willie. Management has many ways to maneuver unions, often outwitting them hands down.
And I also agree with CSafalia. And yes, Chatmandu2, the private sector unions did ruin themselves but with plenty of help from management.
But ruined as they are, I cannot conclude as does VofReason that Unions have outlived their usefullness. But VoR does imply that once upon a time, they were useful. Don't forget it. There was more to uninionization that improved worker safety and improved working conditions. Pay helped make the middle class as CSalafia notes.
Truth has a point. What we need is to spread unionization to China and India, raising the living wage there to a point where those working now for a $1.50 an hour can make enough to buy the goods they make for themselves. Henry Ford created not only the assembly line, but also a wage scale that allowed his own employes to buy Model T's.
All of us are correct. All have valid points.
Any of you out there care to comment on my perspective? I share it with a NLRB mediator who taught me all about unions when I attended Washington University in St. Louis. I worked for him helping him gather statistics on union membership. He forsaw what you all are talking about in 1981! Ain't nothing new about any of this!
truth posted at 2:42 pm on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
When the American people are working for $1.50 a hour without insurance like Communist China, the friends of U.S. corporate leaders, we will see what the above have to say about unions. All you have to do is go back before 1945 to see where Americans are heading. It is called indentured.
Arizona Willie posted at 1:33 pm on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
VofReason, GM didn't get bailed out because of Unions ... it got bailed out because of MANAGEMENT DECISIONS which resulted in poor products that people wouldn't buy. Same for Chrysler.
At the same time GM and Chrysler were crying the blue, Ford was chugging right along and Ford has the same union workers and union pay.
Ford DID NOT take, or ask for, a bailout and it is just as unionized as the companies that did.
MANAGEMENT was at fault for those bailouts --- NOT THE UNIONIZED WORKERS.
VofReason posted at 1:07 pm on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
Mr Popham, I think you got a little too close to the bone for Az Willie. Yes, logical people realize the Labor Unions have worn out their use in most industries. We no longer live in a society where you can operate businesses unsafe for workers. The major reason for unions is to push pay and benefits far beyond the value of the Labor. Ask GM why they have been bailed out multiple times in the past decades. Again, don't deny actuallity, fewer people are joining them and WI will be the start of the trend for fall in Government unions. Just watch
chatmandu002 posted at 10:15 am on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
The private sector unions ruined themselves. When the point of diminishing returns was reached, because of labor costs, the companies said that it's cheaper to do business overseas. How many strikes in the 50s and 60s did it take for business to realize that labor unions where out of control. Then the government took over the role of labor unions with OHSA and the EEOC.
Now the public sector unions are finding that the taxpayer is not always going be the money cow it has been. The labor unions fail to understand the part about diminishing returns and that the private market is the mechanism to determine the fair value of a worker.
CSalafia posted at 9:20 am on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
When union membership was strongest, the middle class was born, everyone's economic situation improved, and the nation prospered.
Once globalization and union-busting became "hip", and companies found out they could increase their profit margin on the backs of third-world children, all of a sudden unions became the "bad guy".
All this anti-union talk is just cover for intentionally driving down wages and redistributing wealth upward.
Conservatives often complain union members get paid too much... perhaps its the anti-union folk are being paid too little.
Arizona Willie posted at 8:56 am on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
No, unions are not their own worst enemies.
Unions worst enemies are envy and jealousy.
Employers use those emotions every day to divide and conquer their employees.
Almost every article about unions I see ( especially public unions and the pensions ) exclaims " private enterprise doesn't get pensions why should unions? ".
That is a false statement. Many private enterprise non-union jobs still get a pension of some form. Perhaps not the defined benefit pensions of old but they get IRA'S and other deferred income plans.
UNIONIZED private enterprise jobs often do get a defined benefit pension ( but not always ).
But businesses use jealousy to divide us.
Why should a non-union worker hate a union worker because the union guy gets a better deal? The non-union worker doesn't hate pro-athletes who get a better deal than he does -- he usually WORSHIPS them.
The non-union worker doesn't hate ( usually ) his foremen who get more than he does nor does he hate his employer who gets a WHOLE lot more than he does. But he allows the employer to convince him that it is unfair for a union worker to get something that he doesn't even though the union workers negotiated for that benefit and, often, gave up something else to get it.
Businesses employ the divide and conquer method to keep workers from unionizing which would cut into their profits a bit.
Non-union employers charge as much as union employers in most cases, or only slightly less ... but pay their employees MUCH less and that is increased profit for them and too bad for you stupid.
Your employers laugh at you as they play the back 9 and sit at the 19th hole because you fall for their bull and refuse to help yourselves by unionizing.