I believe illegal immigration from Mexico to Arizona is bad because they take our jobs, they get free healthcare, and they commit crimes.
First, they sneak over and increase our population so jobs become harder to get. Second, if they get hurt they get hospital treatment without paying while everyone else has to pay. Lastly, since they came over illegally, they don’t have many possessions and they rob stores to get things they need. We shouldn’t stand for this.
Ethan Klein
Mesa
VofReason posted at 12:45 pm on Fri, Mar 15, 2013.
Hmm and why do businesses migrate? Is it as Samkat says " because the greedy employers who outsourced the good jobs ". If this was the case, is it only the stupid and non greedy businesses that stay in the US? Perhaps it has to do with artificailly raising the expectation of pay for low skilled labor. You know, like when the guy who puts on the hubcap in the car assembly line gets unionized pay of 100K a year with a pension and platinum healthcare for him and his whole family forever. How could this impact a decision to move your assembly to another country. Boy, that is a head scratcher.
Masterrogue666 posted at 8:17 am on Thu, Mar 14, 2013.
sockratties: You speak of a better character? Fine, of those two types of people you mention, which one has ALWAYS broken at least one law, if not many more?
Which one has THE RIGHT, by law, of being here?
In order to become a LEGAL immigrant, you are suppose to have a good moral character. IMHO, that means that ANY PERSON (it doesn't matter from which country) that IGNORES OUR LAWS do not have a good moral character, and therefore should be sent packing.....
Bluepoet posted at 6:59 pm on Wed, Mar 13, 2013.
sam: I believe I did cover that half, in my first paragraph above....although I'm not sure, of course, I believe we may differ on just who it is we need to be more focused upon--the greedy employers, who hire illegals, the politicians, who won't enact laws to regulate this practice, both in country and out-of-country, or the illegals who are just trying to stay alive.
As I also said, the problem is many-faceted, not just one or two sides...btw, I have been in that displacement cycle...I've had to change my career, and start over because of outsourcing. Although I could give you a list of who I blame for this, the illegals are right near the bottom. But that's just my own experience, and not really noteworthy for discussion here...
samkat posted at 6:15 pm on Wed, Mar 13, 2013.
Poet: You only covered one half of the equation. Those displaced legal citizens are being squeezed also because the greedy employers who outsourced the good jobs now hire illegals rather than the workers who were displaced and are trying to vie for the available jobs. Folks like jmj are comfortable because they have not been caught up in the cycle of job displacements YET. They will however be screaming when they are put into the same position facing some 14.3 million American workers according to the news report I saw last week. The average wage has already decreased and is not expected to be regained anytime soon.
Bluepoet posted at 2:17 pm on Wed, Mar 13, 2013.
The standard of living and a permanent lower class is already happening, in this country, and it isn't due to illegal immigration, but rather legal business migration.
While it would be preferable to process immigrants in a legal, orderly fashion, the fact is that many (most probably most) of the illegals are here because they have no recourse. And, the legal immigration system is most probably in dire need of modernization, as well. The problems having to do with this issue are many-faceted, and the chief problem in why it isn't being dealt with in a meaningful way, is the politics of cheap labor vs living wage. Until there is nothing here to attract a starving poor person to resort to sneaking here, no fence, no amount of laws, and no army will stop them. We can punish those who exploit the poor, or we can invade yet another country, and push our brand of "democracy" on it. Which is more practical, and which is more costly? Decide, or live with it...
VofReason posted at 12:02 pm on Wed, Mar 13, 2013.
Very true, there are good and bad in any population. unfortunately, we don't have a chance to distinguish which is which until they are already amoungst us when we have an unsecure border. No one disagrees that there are many factors as to why people from Mexico and other places want to come here. However, that does not negate the need to go through a process to do so nor does it mean we can always take all comers. The right move is to come to an expidited legal process to become an American Citizen. My sense is this will not satisfy many of the protestor crowd as they again want anyone any time and all comers. Cannot happen in a country unless you want to reducse the standard of living and create a permanent lower class.
sockratties posted at 10:56 am on Wed, Mar 13, 2013.
As your teachers will tell you, Ethan, the issue of illegal aliens has more than one component. There is the criminal element which has been given priority by the administration.
There is the economic component that has been exacerbated by NAFTA and the U.S. subsidy on biofuel production. This has caused a shortage on feed corn in the U.S. and an increase in industrial production of corn in Mexico. The family farm in many areas of Mexico has been supplanted by huge industrial farms, similar to what happened in the California Imperial Valley. Those farmers have lost the ability to support their family because local businesses have disappeared. They come North looking for work.
There is also the problem of immigrants who have lived here since they were babies. The defeated “Dream Act” would have solved many of those problems but it was defeated for political reasons.
Finally there are assumptions, such as those you express:
[they sneak over and increase our population so jobs become harder to get] - an increased population creates more customers. Have you noticed how many businesses advertize in Spanish lately?
[if they get hurt they get hospital treatment without paying while everyone else has to pay] – no more than other economically stressed groups. The greatest burden on ER rooms and soup kitchens is people who have decided to become professional beggars and pan-handlers. These are not illegal immigrants who need to have a job because they have to send money to their families in Mexico.
[since they came over illegally, they don’t have many possessions and they rob stores to get things they need] – data do not support this assumption. Poor people are more likely to rob stores while rich people commit white collar crime. Statics indicate that people who are here for work are less likely to commit a crime (other than being here) than others in the same economic range.
Ethan… I see a lot of people standing on corners begging for free help. They are never Hispanic. I see a lot of people standing on corners asking for work. They are almost always Hispanic. You decide who are of better character.
Arizona Willie posted at 10:51 am on Wed, Mar 13, 2013.
JMJ: You said " Ethan, just like with any population, there are people who are good and bad. Most people who cross the border just want to work and support their families. "
===
Just because people have good intentions doesn't give them the right to ignore the laws.
I just want to support my family too so therefore it is ok if I rob banks to support them. My good intentions trump laws ... oh that's only for certain " special " people?
Can you ( or anyone ) explain to the readers why people from south of our border are so special that laws don't pertain to them?
Hundreds of thousands of people pay the fees, file the forms, and wait their turn and become citizens every year.
Why don't people from south of our border have to do that too?
PhoenixJack posted at 6:21 am on Wed, Mar 13, 2013.
Things are not going to get better until thing become really bad.
Abstract01 posted at 11:43 pm on Tue, Mar 12, 2013.
Yep, they just want their children to have a good education, but they are unwilling to improve the greenery on their side of the fence. So they start feeding off their neighbor's pasture.
What do you think of this idea for an extended-time solution for illegal immigration?
The white house can take all the undocumented workers that are apprehended, and put them through a 9 week indoctrination camp. Teach them to become "community organizers", and then send them back to their country, with the equivalent of a state senator's salary, payable monthly for a year.
Who knows, perhaps one will become president of their native country?
Leon Ceniceros posted at 11:33 pm on Tue, Mar 12, 2013.
Mr. Klein,
Notice how the Commenter above never once acknowledges that these Illegal Aliens (85% from Mexico) are............'CRIMINALS".
EVEN DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT OBAMA'S ...SEC. OF HOMELAND "IN"-SECURITY, JANET NAPOLITANO CALLS THEM............"UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS".
NOT ONLY ARE THE SOCIALIST/DEMOCRAT SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN AND WOMEN PUSHING FOR ......"AMNESTY"...ALONG WITH OBAMA...........BUT THERE ARE ...."R.I.N.O.'s"....(Republicans In Name Only)....like Senator John "Keating Five" McCain and Ole "Tweedle-Dee"....SENATOR JEFF "UTAH COMPACT" FLAKE.
MAJOR CHURCHS AND CULTS WANT MORE MEMBERS AND MORE MONEY IN THE COLLECTION BOX..........TOO.
THESE POLITICIANS AND OTHERS ARE "PIMPING-OUT" OUR MOST PRECIOUS TREASURE...."AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP"....FOR 30 PIECES OF SILVER. [sad]
JMJ posted at 7:47 pm on Tue, Mar 12, 2013.
Ethan, just like with any population, there are people who are good and bad. Most people who cross the border just want to work and support their families. They want their children to have a good education. The border crossings are not as numerous as they were years ago. The Border Patrol has done a good job of keeping people out in the past several years.