McClellan: Not much to show for 10 years of war.
Mike McClellan
Mike McClellan is a Gilbert resident and former English teacher at Dobson High School in Mesa.
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Arizona Willie posted at 9:18 am on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Mr. McClellan ... very much has been accomplished.
Defense contractors have made billions in profits.
Funeral parlors have buried thousands of soldiers who died for Bush's Follies.
They made a lot of money too.
Hospitals have reaped windfalls treating the tens of thousands of injured soldiers.
This windfall will continue for many years as medical personnel treat soldiers with PTSD and other disabilities that will trouble the soldiers all their life.
Having a million or so troops occupied in the military and tens of thousands more employed by defense contractors has kept the un-employment rate down.
The business of America is WAR and business is GOOD.
Cerulean posted at 9:37 am on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Indeed. From my perspective, it is difficult to understand why we continue to need foot soldiers in Afghanistan.
On the other hand, our dollars would likely pay these soldiers be they stateside on a training field in Kansas or tromping the earth in foreign territory. I think that all, if not most of the troops in Afghanistan are regular enlistees (as opposed to National Guard etc.). The difference then is one of safety. Does our military learn anything if our soldiers are always in a safe country? Are these men and women ‘soldiers’ if they are always kept extremely safe?
Maddog posted at 9:49 am on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Not much to show for Afghanistan? When's the last time a hi-jacked plane was flown into a building? You Libs really amaze me. Bush's follies? How about Clinton's complete incompetence. Let's see The 1st bombing of the World Trade Center, 2 Embassy's bombed, The USS Cole Bombed and nothing was done. Then the terrorist trained for two years in this country while Clinton was Pres, then 8 months after Bush takes over they strike. Our troops freely enlist and have ever since we were first attacked! Evidently they think there's a good reason for us to be there or they wouldn't keep enlisting. I'm a Vet and my brothers and sisters do need to come home AFTER the job is done!!!!
Dale Whiting posted at 10:05 am on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Mike,
Your assessments of accomplishments are charitable, even over stated.
Willie, your sarcasm does not go far enough.
Cerulean, it's far cheapter to feed, cloth, house and care for soldiers at home that in an isolated foreign country. We are spending upward of $1,000,000 per man per year.
Maddog, do the math! And recall, we got even with bin Laden. Was the price worth it? Probably not!
Remember Ike! He was a military man. He told us to "Beware of the Military-Industrial complex." But clearly we have not. Ike gave us the Interstate Highway system. What single president has done anything approaching that since?
Mike is right. It's long past time we came home and stayed home. Seal Team Six makes sense. The rest is a huge waste of resources. And the economy is paying for it now and perhaps for 35 years into the future, regardless of who is elected in November!
mnjcpa posted at 11:14 am on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Maddog - my son was criticized constantly by liberal teachers in school for his desire to join the military. It just follows that Obama theme that America needs to be cut down to size - both economically and military. Take in the movie this weekend 2016: Obama's America. While it had to circumvent Hollywood media to get a foothold, it is the first documentary to truly communicate what shapes this dangerous leader's vision. We have to work harder because there's so many brainless liberals to counter, but this movie should have been done four years ago.
I for one applaud your service.
skampers posted at 12:03 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Dale, I believe you misspeak when you state we "got even with Bin Laden". If that was our purpose and our desire then the seal team would have blown up the complex killing everyone inside. We would have hunted down the rest of his family and let him watch it on TV time after time. But we didn't. Instead, our military killed one son and injured Bin Laden's wife who he pulled in front of him during the attack.
"Was the price worth it?" Who knows; a life is a life whether it's an innocent person who happens to find themselves in the next location when the bomb goes off or a soldier performing his/her duty? We don't know the results of what might have happened. How do you measure or quantify that which does not happen? Bin Laden was just one leader in a terrorist group, there were many others who are no longer of this world who also would have an impact.
If the courts lock up a serial killer or a burglar we have no way to measure how many fewer victims there might have been because the criminal is now out of circulation. If a woman elects to undergo a radical mastectomy just because there is a past history of cancer, just to be sure, can you put a price tag on that and come back and ask was it worth the price to the insurance company? You don't know because it didn't happen.
The best you can do is look at the past and compare it to what is or is not happening now.
Granted, there are major issues coming to light in Afghanistan. It is volatile. Obviously we have not made the progress we dreamed of 10 years ago. But, if we pack up and go home, what might our potential costs be 5 years from now?
I want our soldiers home as much as anyone. I want us to be able to cut down the expense of ongoing wars. But I'm not wiling to leave a job 1/2 done.
VofReason posted at 1:44 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Agree, it does not seem that Afghanistan is predesposed to be a safe and organized country. So agree, what are we doing there. Though, to hear stories, our military is handcuffed there and trying to play nice with the crooked government and people of the country with different loyalties. They should get out and just go back a eradicate encampments if terrorist take hold. Bring the military home and place them on our sothern border. More people have been murdered in Mexico over the last 5 years. Isn't it the bigger risk?
Arizona Willie posted at 2:53 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Dale, Ike gave us the Interstate Highway System and Kennedy gave us the moon.
The effort to get to the moon spawned many ( probably thousands ) of technological advances.
Now if you asked what other REPUBLICAN President gave us such an accomplishment -- the answer would be nobody.
Since Ike, Republican Presidents have been focused on serving the wealthy and corporations.
Their idea of a national anthem is the jingle of a cash register.
Engaged Voter posted at 3:05 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
"Not much to show for Afghanistan? When's the last time a hi-jacked plane was flown into a building?"
Dear Maddog - Afghanistan did not attack us. Iraq did not attack us. The terrorists who flew planes into building were from SAUDI ARABIA.
After Pearl Harbor, did we invade Cambodia and Indonesia? Heck no, we went after the country that attacked us, Japan!
I can understand an uneducated civilian thinking this way...but a member of our armed forces? Yikes! Educate yourself, please...for ALL our sakes.
Engaged Voter posted at 3:06 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
"Bring the military home and place them on our sothern border. More people have been murdered in Mexico over the last 5 years. Isn't it the bigger risk?"
Finally! VofReason makes a good point here, and I agree 100%.
Arizona Willie posted at 3:43 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Many of our soldiers have died / been maimed defending the borders of iraq and Afghanistan --- but we can't defend our own borders.
It would seem logical to have our troops defending our own borders as training for the missions they get sent on. They train messing around the borders of military bases pretending they are important borders. They could just as well be defending the real thing.
mnjcpa posted at 6:10 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Yeah Willie and Democrats gave us the `War on Poverty` that hasn't improved a thing to make people self-sufficient. More people have their hands out today than ever before including illegals that take billions in tax credits without contributing a penny in taxes.
mnjcpa posted at 6:52 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Finally. A liberal media station that reports the truth. `2016: Obama's America` is a movie everyone needs to see. How can any logical thinking person give a hoot about Romney's taxes while not asking any questions about our president's past.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/08/17/2016-obamas-america-movie-is-disturbingly-necessary/
Mike McClellan posted at 7:46 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Funny how so many so quickly can so off the topic . . .
But I'll bite. mnjcpa wants us to go to a "liberal media station" that reports the truth. But when you go to the link, it's not a report at all. It's an opinion piece by someone whose column is entitled "The Right Politics," and who is a regular contributor to conservative websites.
Hardly a "report" at all.
Now, back to the topic: Can those on this thread who say we should stay "until the job is done" define when the job is done?
mnjcpa posted at 8:49 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
It's reported via CBS - hardly a conservative station. You really need to get the blinders off.
Cerulean posted at 10:31 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
I just read an article by Peter Van Buren (a member of the State Department, Provincial Reconstruction Team). Peter is angry by our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. He reminds me of G. W. Bush 2003 address to the nation regarding Iraq and his use of Germany and Japan as examples of what the U.S. could achieve by destroying and reconstructing Iraq. Afghanistan was already destroyed and so it was merely a matter of reconstruction.
Peter said, “We're not content merely to tame people; we want to change them, too, and make them want it [consumerism] as well. Fundamentalist Muslims will send their girls to school, a society dominated by religion will embrace consumerism, and age-old tribal leaders will give way to (US-friendly, media-savvy) politicians, even while we grow our archipelago of military bases and our corporations make out like bandits. It's our way of reconciling Freedom and Empire, the American Way. Only problem: it doesn't work. Not for a second. Not at all. Nothing. Nada.”
I think his perspective is insightful and I wonder if this is what Maddog means when he says “come home AFTER the job is done!!!!”
You can read the article here: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/08/how-not-reconstruct-iraq-afghanistan
Engaged Voter posted at 11:18 am on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.
"It's reported via CBS - hardly a conservative station."
No, the OP ED piece in on a CBS website, but the "reporting" was done by Scott Paulson writing for "The Right Politics".
Yeah, that sounds liberal...LOL.
Seriously, do you even bother to read your own links before posting them? Sheesh!
chatmandu002 posted at 11:37 am on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.
Mike,
I am still hoping that some good will come out of our military victory in Afghanistan. But is has been madding, frustrating and depressing trying to justify the loss of our young troops to a country and religion that is stuck in the 7th century and refuses to move forward into the modern world. For every one step forward the Islamist take two steps back.
Arizona Willie posted at 2:10 pm on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.
chatmandu --- for some unknown reason we think that because democracy and capitalism has worked for us that we are entitled to export our system to the whole world == whether they want it or not.
If they don't want it == we'll MAKE them want it.
And then we don't understand when the people of these countries hate us and shoot at us.
What would we do if the Chinese invaded us and said we had to run our country THEIR way?
There must be something about the water in Washington D. C. that makes people believe God wants us to take our democracy and our economic system - capitalism to all the rest of the world.
Engaged Voter posted at 5:43 pm on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.
"I am still hoping that some good will come out of our military victory in Afghanistan."
We had a victory there? When was this?
(I'm reminded of the Mission Accomplished banner, LOL)
And a victory against whom, exactly?
Arizona Willie posted at 10:55 pm on Thu, Aug 23, 2012.
Engaged Voter, after several thousand troops have been killed and tens of thousands wounded we managed to kill Osama bin Lauden and the 10 - 15 people protecting him.
That is our ONLY victory in Afghanistan.
It < was > a GOOD one though.
Now we should bring all our troops home and just take care of terrorist training camps with tactical nukes delivered via drone or cruise missile.
Nothing much to be harmed in Afghanistan or Pakistan anyway but poppys being made into heroin. A few nukes wouldn't hurt anything of importance.
Our drone operators could put a small low - yield tactical nuke right on the mess hall of a terrorist training camp.
No need to spend billions of dollars and get thousands of men killed and maimed.
We have the weapons to remove a terrorist base from the face of the earth without losing a single American soldier -- why don't we use them?
Engaged Voter posted at 1:08 pm on Fri, Aug 24, 2012.
"That is our ONLY victory in Afghanistan."
One problem, that "victory" didn't occur in Afghanistan. It happened in Pakistan.
Oops!
Arizona Willie posted at 6:16 pm on Fri, Aug 24, 2012.
You're absolutely correct, EV, it was Pakistan.
Afghanistan West.
It's basically all one big sh*thole over there ... who can tell the difference [smile]
However, they started chasing Bin Lauden in Afghanistan and the game crossed over into Pakistan at some point.
Pakistan is another boondoggle. We shouldn't get invoved there either.
samkat posted at 6:43 pm on Fri, Aug 24, 2012.
Isn't it interesting how most of the armchair critics have never served a day in the military? I am a hawk. They are they ones who tend to have the doves for breakfast. :-) Remember that it was a democratic president who got us into Vietnam and a democratic president who escalated conflict into a full blown war. Yes, that is the one that got me intimately involved but then I was already a volunteer when there was a draft so I had no reason to complain about my involvement.
I agree with the assessment that since 9/11, we have not had anymore planes commandeered so if nothing else, the invasion was worthwhile. Our enemies respond to our strength rather than our inaction. The latter only encourages them.
Engaged Voter posted at 8:33 am on Sat, Aug 25, 2012.
"I agree with the assessment that since 9/11, we have not had anymore planes commandeered so if nothing else, the invasion was worthwhile."
It's like talking to a brick wall.
WE NEVER INVADED THE COUNTRY RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11.
Your "logic" fails hard. It's like saying "We haven't had any unicorn invasions since I made this Unicorn Repellant, so it must be worthwhile."
You want to argue that beefing up domestic security has something to do with no more hijackings? Sure, there's evidence for that.
But to claim our invasion of two foreign countries had anything to do with it is delusional...if anything, those atrocities have made us LESS safe. The Afghan/Iraqi citizen who, ten years ago, didn't care about America, now probably wants us dead in retaliation for murdering his children. See how that works?
Support our Troops - I mean REALLY support them - BRING THEM HOME!
sockratties posted at 1:25 pm on Sat, Aug 25, 2012.
Several commenters say we need to stay until the “job is done.” I’m okay with that except… the job IS done. As a design and testing engineer for 40 plus years I learned that sooner or later you have to quite perfecting an assignment or you will break it. We passed that point long ago in Afghanistan. It’s as good as it’s going to get.
A job is the accomplishment of an objective. We originally wanted to disrupt the safe haven of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan accomplished that objective. We had to defeat the Taliban to get that done. We did that and after several false starts also managed to kill bin Laden, another related objective. Jobs well done.
What jobs remain? What is our objective now? I believe the objectives for going into Afghanistan were sound and were accomplished despite the distraction of Iraq and loss of focus by the previous administration. Any remaining objectives are those of profiteers. The war is costing us $10 billion a month. Follow the money to see who’s defining the objectives now.