Why would a person want to be a teacher, coach, counselor or administrator in our Arizona public schools? We pay them a paltry salary, we have almost impossible expectations of them, their medical and retirement benefits have been reduced, their tenure has been rendered impotent, and some are even facing layoffs.
After our students, the second most important group of people in our schools are our teachers and administrators. They need to be able to create a positive learning environment, discipline, encourage, inspire, and motivate our future generations (who are also future taxpayers!). How are they going to achieve these critically important tasks with diminished resources, reduced salaries, and uncertain job futures? What person would want to go into education as a career or choose to remain in education as a profession under these conditions?
This much is clear: We have a legislature that is miserly toward public education. Until we elect better educated legislators, ones that value education as a conduit toward economic prosperity, and ones that view education as an investment rather than an expense, we’ll continue to struggle with improving education in Arizona or even maintaining the marginal status quo.
The Republican-dominated legislature has done very few positive things for education in the past, their present penny pinching hurts students and staff alike, and the future with the GOP at the monetary helm portends bleakness for all Arizonans who care about public education in our state.
We are indeed in an educational performance race with all the other states and we don’t seem to mind that Mississippi, South Carolina, and us are mired in the basement.
Richard K. Meszar
Mesa
Leon Ceniceros posted at 1:50 pm on Fri, May 11, 2012.
Sorry that sports are to....MASCULINE .....for some folks.
Maybe we should plow all of the football fields, the soccer fields, the baseball fields and turn them into beautiful gardens and orchards. Yes, I can see it now........not Mesa High School but............MARTHA STEWART HIGH SCHOOL.
Why stop there.....instead of shop and car repair classes.......we can have ....MACRAME, QUILTING, FLOWER ARRANGING CLASSES........ORIGAMI..lol.
Obama and the Democrats have made the US Military........GENDER NEUTRAL.......why not the schools too..............[wink]
Arizona Willie posted at 7:59 am on Fri, May 11, 2012.
chuckles3 ... the problem is the money that is spent on education is often spent in the wrong place.
Drive by any school and compare the area devoted to education and the area devoted to athletics.
Some schools have coaches who are paid more than the principal or any teacher.
Tremendous amounts of money are spent on athletic fields and gymnasiums and swimming pool facilities.
Just imagine the money spent on keeping the baseball fields and football fields nice and green.
I drive by a school all the time with huge baseball and football and soccer fields with the water being sprayed constantly and all beautifully fenced. Huge acreage especially compared to the size of the actual school building.
And this is PRIME land that would draw top dollar for residential or commercial development.
If parents want their kids to be athletic stars they should pay for that on their own. Not have it supplied by the taxpayers. The kids have a better chance of being hit by lightening twice and then winning the Powerball, than they do of becoming a pro athlete.
The money is spent in the wrong places.
School administration is top heavy. Too many chiefs ... not enough indians ( no disrespect meant ... just an old phrase ).
Fire the coaches ... sell the athletic fields ... fire half the administrators and you could double teacher pay and attract some good people. Who is going to want to endure the attitude people have towards teachers and put up with their kids for $30 - 35 K / year?
And people wonder why about once a month or so news breaks of another child molesting teacher.
chuckles3 posted at 6:01 pm on Thu, May 10, 2012.
Yes, yes let's spend the most per student like DC and New York City...then we would see results!!! Why, just look at their test scores! Oh, wait. Well, just look at their graduation rates! Oh, wait. Hmmm. Maybe, just maybe, throwing money at Education isn't the answer.
truth posted at 3:23 pm on Thu, May 10, 2012.
Arizona wastes more money at the top and the class room suffers. When you talk about money spent on education you have two levels administration and teaching. You can't compare public and private schools because of parents involvement. Why is Arizona at the bottom in many State ratings? Why did Bryan Matyn get a state job earning $129, 500.00 job with no experience only because he was favored by Governor Brewer?
VofReason posted at 12:58 pm on Thu, May 10, 2012.
Classic Truth-"fails to meet" the essential moral mandate of Catholicism". I think the Catholics may want to saty away from judging people on moral mandates. Beside that, are we starting from the position that Education doesn't get enough money and that everything runs so efficiently within education that the only possible solution is more money? What if I told you that funding from all sources per public school student in AZ is more then many private schools charge for tuition. Want to discuss the outcomes of private vs public educations? OK, come back when you figure out why education squanders what they do get.
Arizona Willie posted at 7:47 am on Thu, May 10, 2012.
concernedcitizen ... you are just wasting time presenting Leon with logic and facts.
He is one of our resident right wing nut jobs.
If someone collected his posts and had them evaluated by 10 psychiatrists -- the kindest term any of them would use is " unstable ". At least 7 out of 10, at some point in their report would declare him " bat s*hit crazy ".
Leon Ceniceros posted at 7:31 am on Thu, May 10, 2012.
What did I tell you Folks.
Whom ever wrote the heading for this Letter to the Editor....hit the nail on the head when he/she chose the word "Educator". That is the crux of the "teacher problem of Today". Our current crop of teachers don't see teaching the way our old teachers of the 1930's, 40's and 50's did. The teachers of old went into the teaching profession (yes, it was a profession back then.....not a "calling" as it is Today) to ....IMPART KNOWLEDGE............NOT TO CHANGE SOCIETY, THE WORLD, THE ENVIRONMENT.
Today's teachers have this....MESSIANIC COMPLEX....that they can help every single student reach his/her potential in Life.
Sorry, Guys and Gals (and everyone in-between) but you, as a teacher, were not placed on this Earth to be a ...POINT OF LIGHT.......but a .........POINT OF ENLIGHTENMENT.
You have 25 or more students that you are required by your ....JOB (that's right...it's a JOB....YOU ARE BEING PAID TO DO A JOB....AKA....TEACH A SUBJECT)...not to ........RIGHT THE WRONGS OF SOCIETY.
GO ANYWHERE IN THE GLOBE (other than nutz-oh....England...lol) AND WATCH OTHER COUNTRIES' TEACHERS....YOU WON'T SEE A........."MR. COTTER OR A MISS JEAN BRODIE" IN THE LOT. WHY DO OUR EMPLOYERS AS FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ROMANIAN, HUNGARIAN, CZECH, CHINESE, JAPANESE, KOREAN AND INDIAN COLLEGE GRADUATES INSTEAD OF HIRING AMERICAN GRADUATES.......IT'S BECAUSE THE STUDENTS FROM THOSE COUNTRIES HAD DISCIPLINARIAN TEACHERS WHO...."EXPECTED" ...THEIR STUDENTS TO LEARN. THOSE TEACHERS ..."EDUCATED"....THEIR STUDENTS. THEY IMPARTED SUBJECT KNOWLEDGE TO THEIR STUDENTS........THEY DIDN'T.....MENTOR, MOTHER, FATHER, BEFRIEND THEIR STUDENTS.....BECAUSE THAT WASN'T THEIR JOB...........SO QUIT TRYING TO BE..........DON QUIXOTE'S...AND GO BACK TO BEING.........EDUCATORS......LET SOME ONE ELSE ........WALK ON WATER.
concernedcitizen posted at 10:02 pm on Wed, May 9, 2012.
We teachers do teach the curriculum as mandated by the state. If I didn't I'd be fired.
You want decorum? Well, guess what, it is illegal to "swat" students on the behind nowadays. We don't live in the 50's and 60's anymore. There is not any discipline severe enough for certain students that will make them "afraid to misbehave again." Out of school suspension doesn't do anything, unless the parents actually care that their child is at home and they have to take a day off work to watch them. Most parents don't care and will let their child stay home and play video games during their "out of school suspension." The problem is exacerbated because of laws that have stripped schools of most of the rights of discipline.
I agree with you that parents are responsible for teaching proper behavior and study habits. But with so many parents who have abdicated this most important responsibility, where does the responsibility lie? Still on the parents, but if we want any hope of these students succeeding in life and in school, we have to pick up the slack in organizational and behavioral attitudes and practices in the schools. If schools (teachers) didn't take on these additional roles (that you make fun of them for doing), then the future of our society would be in even more jeopardy.
Is teaching and coaching proper behaviors part of my curriculum? Absolutely not! But am I going to be able to have any real teaching/learning go on in my classroom if I do not do this? Absolutely not!
You may say, "Well you don't have proper 'class decorum.'" I happen to be one of the best classroom managers in my district. I don't need a refresher on that. Most teachers do not, but it is an art too. We would love to have students like there were back in the 50's and 60's who came in without talking, went right to their seats and got to work. Those behaviors that were ingrained in, and expected by, society, are still expected of by teachers, but students do not seem to understand them in general until they come to school and are taught them. Sometimes it is a daily reinforcement for some classes the entire year.
In order to show adequate student progress (which I now have to do legally by the state of Arizona), I have to help teach and coach behaviors so that real learning can take place. There is no other way. TEACHERS CANNOT TEACH EFFECTIVELY NOWADAYS WITHOUT TEACHING AND PRACTICING PROPER BEHAVIORS WITH THEIR STUDENTS FIRST. This is research-based. I can't change the attitudes of students and parents, I can only do effectively what I do day in and day out in my classroom to help reach as many students as possible.
You talk about how students who didn't "want" to learn or were low-performing were sent to the counselor. Nowadays, we would have to have at least 10 counselors at every school with all the problems that children have in their lives that cause them to "not want to learn."
I've done foster care and learned enough about these types of children that sometimes just making it to school is an accomplishment for them, and learning on days they've been abused is merely a bonus. They are in survival mode. There are TONS more students who have bad family relationships that affect them negatively than there were back in the 50's and 60's. We have over 12,000 children in Maricopa County alone who are currently in foster care. We don't have enough money in education to fund all the counseling and other resources these disadvantaged children need in order to succeed (and I am not including illegal immigrant children in that point, mind you.)
If students are out of the classroom more than they are in, then they are not learning everything they need to. Which is better then, keep all these students in the classroom and teach them the best you can, or send half the class out for every behavior problem or lack of active participation?
Leon, when I invite you to follow a teacher for a week and see what they do and what they go through, you ignore me every time. I do everything you say teachers should do, with some modifications because students (and societal standards) are a LOT different than when you were a little boy. Maybe if you did take the time to step into modern-day classrooms, you would realize this. You would also realize that most teachers are not "pushing a socialist agenda and following their unions faithfully," etc. Anyone can spout off garbage like that that is unfounded. Just because the actions of a few stupid teachers gets in the newspapers does not mean that is the majority. The fact that you don't hear much of the majority is because they are trying to do much of what you say they should be doing, and also because the news needs something sensational. Let's face it, news that is about someone who is doing what they are supposed to be doing is not sensational unfortunately, and we rarely hear "positive" news stories because of it.
I really wish you would stop talking about how horrible teachers are and start doing something to make real change. I've offered things to help you see a different side. Now, take some steps into a few classrooms, then contact your legislators to see what changes can be made. The more voices FOR a quality education, the better.
Attacking teachers is not going to fix anything. Everything, laws included, is in place to MORE than adequately hold teachers accountable. We need things, including laws, to hold ADMINISTRATORS more accountable for our tax dollars, as well as our law makers for how they appropriate funds and for the laws they put in place. The problem is not with teachers in general (there are always exceptions), though teachers seem to get the brunt of the finger-pointing.
Isn't it funny that, when there is a problem, in sports we look to the coach, in this country we look to the president, but in education we look to the teachers. Realistically we should be looking at everyone involved, but rarely do I hear talk about administrators and our legislature. Just ironic.
Leon, you don't seem to care much about my opinion, but I still care about yours, even if I disagree with it most of the time. Please fill us all in why you spout off about teachers the way you do, why you think that "all teachers have a socialist agenda and allegiance to their union and push illegal immigrant students to do anti-SB1070 marches..." I'd really like to hear some hard facts on why you believe the way you do, because obviously we are seeing two widely-different perspectives of the teaching world. The only difference is I live the teaching world every day, and you do not. And, not once did I whine about wanting more money in my pocket for what I do (though that would be nice). Which perspective has more validity, someone who spouts off about education in the 50's and 60's (over 50 years ago), or someone who is heavily involved in it today and knows what it is personally like to teach today's students?
Leon Ceniceros posted at 8:51 pm on Wed, May 9, 2012.
Reading the comments from the teachers you see the same theme over and over. Helping them learn values of right from wrong....working collectively to a common goal...spending more time with students from a "rough" childhood or home situation".
Excuse me but that is not what a "teacher" does....that is what a "counselor" does. Teachers are employed by the tax-payers of a school district to instill "knowledge" of a particular subject........not to "mentor"...that is someone else's job. The whole concept of "what is a teacher" changed with the 1960's "flower-child, hippie, environmental, ecology" movement.
Our teachers would give us an outline of the class tests, how the class was graded, what weight was placed on term projects, mid-terms and final exams.........period. The teacher taught to the "whole" class....there was no time for "mentoring". Every class was 50 minutes long with 10 minutes to get to your next class. You were "EXPECTED" to be current with your homework and your reading. The teacher could care less about you home life, your aspirations, your needs. He/she was teaching 25 students. The class was thought of as one unit....not one person.
YOUR PARENT(S) WERE THE ONES WHO WERE RESPONCIBLE FOR YOUR BEHAVIOR AND STUDY HABITS................NOT.....THE.....TEACHER.
THEY WERE PAID TO TEACH A SUBJECT TO THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENTS. THE ONES THAT DID NOT LEARN FOR WHAT EVER REASON WERE THE ..............."PROBLEM"....OF THE COUNSELOR AND THE BOYS/GIRLS VICE-PRINCIPALS.
I went to one of the "roughest" High Schools in South-Central Los Angeles back in the 1950's and early 1960's. Every single student had a "life problem" (low-income, single parents, drugs, alcohol, physical and sadly sexual abuse at home too). We all came to school to ...........LEARN...........our home problems were left at home where they belonged. We were....."expected" to be at class on time, every day and ...."PREPARED TO LEARN". There were no "MR. COTTERS" or "MISS JEAN BRODIE'S" .....teaching in my school.........NO BLEEDING HEARTS OR MENTORS. Just hard working teachers who taught the majority of the students who came to class to learn a subject. The ones who couldn't keep up or wouldn't keep up were sent out of class to be counseled or disciplined (aka....SWATS). Students did not talk back to teachers or act up in the class room....whether they were in the Crips, the Bloods, the Slauson Gang or the Florence-13 Gang....THEY KNEW THAT THEY HAD TO ACT "RIGHT" OR THEY WOULD BE DISCIPLINED, SUSPENDED OR EXPELLED.
Most of my teachers were elderly men and women in their late 50's or early 60's in the College Prep Courses. If you went to class and there was no teacher at the desk you whispered to your classmates until the teacher walked into class and then you stood up until the teacher said "Class be seated"...the same when the bell rang that class was over...you did not leave your seat until the teacher said..."Class dismissed". Maybe that is what the teachers and the students of today need is a "refresher course" in ...........CLASS DECORUM.
Maybe our teachers need to leave the "kleenex and the crying towels" at home and just concentrate on the ...........CURRICULUM.
chatmandu002 posted at 8:11 pm on Wed, May 9, 2012.
Richard,
Your letter leaves out another component in the education of our children, the parents, for which the teachers, administration or the legislature have no control over. Sorry that the balanced budget our legislature passed didn't include the unlimited funds for education you wanted. More money does not equate to better education.
concernedcitizen posted at 8:06 pm on Wed, May 9, 2012.
Rich, I agree with your letter except for the part about administrators being just as important after the students themselves. Teachers, yes, administrators, well, they have creative ways of devising positions for friends and family members that eat up some of the meager budget that could be used for children. Not in every case, but often.
Leon, again I ask, have you gone into a classroom for a week and seen what a teacher has to do, has to deal with, and what they have to take home every night?
No one that I know of has that "all-powerful" allegiance to the union (the unions don't have any power, remember that this is a right to work state?), no teacher I know of has encouraged any "SB-1070-like" marches, who has time? We are all too busy doing the very best job we can to help prepare children for the future, which involves a lot more than just getting back to "teaching," as you say.
You want us to solely focus on teaching? Talk to our legislators to allow more control in regards to discipline in the classroom (not physical of course). We have to be "creative" and in part be mentors in order for any real, true learning to take place.
Again, I ask you to tag along with a teacher for a week. Not a teacher who is one of the exceptions that does stupid things to kids or is lazy and sloppy, but the vast majority of teachers who are working their tails off and who care so much about students' succeeding that they give up personal time and family time in order to make that happen. Teachers who sacrifice day in and day out.
I am a professional educator in Arizona, why? Not for the money, not for the "pushing a political agenda" (again, who has time? I'd be fired for not getting through my curriculum, which I have less time to teach because of all the new laws and extra testing we have to do), not so I can whine about how much money I'm not making. I teach because I care, I care about the future of Arizona and America, I care to teach students values of right and wrong and how to work with each other effectively toward a common goal, I care that students are able to succeed, and that those who come from rough backgrounds not of their own choosing get the needed help they need. I highly encourage you to read the poem in the following link by Taylor Mali. All (and I mean ALL) the teachers I work with believe in the spirit of this poem. Happy reading!
http://www.rattle.com/poetry/2009/04/what-teachers-make-or-if-things-dont-work-out-you-can-always-go-to-law-school-by-taylor-mali/
Rich posted at 6:39 pm on Wed, May 9, 2012.
"Rand believes that compassion was morally wrong and despised poor as leches who weakened society."
Pretty much historically the case. Which is rather unfortunate. However the leeches provide power, and those seeking are always their champions. Our founders limited the power, now that they've found ways around the restrictions, the greatest enemies of the "leeches" are their champions. As I said, an unfortunate state of affairs.
Arizona Willie posted at 4:54 pm on Wed, May 9, 2012.
Republican ( politicians ) are always complaining about the egg-head professors indoctrinating students as Democrats.
Why would smart Professors advocate the Democrat philosophy? Because they know the Republican philosophy doesn't work. Trickle down is a farce.
Republican ( politicians ) hate education because the more education people have the easier they can see that the Republican philosophy has more holes than a block of swiss cheese.
Republican ( politicians ) are constantly trying to cut education budgets for PUBLIC schools because they believe in keeping people stupid enough to idolize people like Rush Limbaugh.
The dumber people are the more likely they are to swallow the promises of tax cuts etc. which always turn out to ONLY be tax cuts for the RICH.
Reagan pushed through probably the biggest tax increase on working people that ever happened when they took away the deduction(s) for interest except for your mortgage.
Many here are too young to know / remember but you used to be able to deduct ALL interest paid on credit cards / mortgages / car loans --- ALL interest was deductible. Taking that deduction away cost the working class TRILLIONS of dollars over the years.
truth posted at 4:24 pm on Wed, May 9, 2012.
Republican party's most influential budget and tax stragitest Rep. Paul Ryan has proposed a ten year blue print for reducing the deficit that cuts trillions in spending on food stamps, medicare, and education while giving trillions in tax breaks to the wealthy. But in a embarasing slap-down, the U.S. conference of Catholic Bishops had denounced Ryan's budget, saying it "fails to meet" the essential moral mandate of Catholicism; to help what Jesus calls "the least of these"- the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the jobless. A groop of 90 Jesuit scholars and Georgetown facility joined the Bishops in protest, telling Ryan that his budget " appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. As Jesuits point out, it provides convenient cover for Ryan's true moral inspiriation- Rand, " libertarian philosopher Queen "whos book Atlas Shugged Ryan has said he gives to all his interns. Rand believes that compassion was morally wrong and despised poor as leches who weakened society. AJC.com
Leon Ceniceros posted at 3:48 pm on Wed, May 9, 2012.
If coaches, teachers and education administrators want the Legislature (we only have one, let's use the proper capitalization) and the voters to give them the Arizona Income Tax Revenues from hard-working "LEGAL" Arizonians.....do it the old-fashioned way = EARN IT.
Quit moaning, groaning and whinning about not getting enough of the "pie".
Quit covering up for your fellow pedophile, under-age sexual predator co-workers. These are children's lives we are dealing with....for get your "alligiance" to the Arizona Teachers Union................TURN THEM IN FOR GAWD'S SAKE.
Quit being a "friend and mentor" and go back to being a "TEACHER".
Quit bringing your..........LIBERAL, SOCIALIST, PROGRESSIVE or DEMOCRAT POLITICS TO THE CLASSROOM.....LEAVE YOUR POLITICAL AGEND HOME...WHERE IT BELONGS.
Quit urging your Hispanic and Illegal Alien students to......march and cause public disruptions about .....SB1070, the DREAM ACT or any other POLITICS.
Your students are in your classroom to learn a .....SUBJECT....NOT A SOCIAL AGENDA.
Quit trying to be..........."WELCOME BACK COTTER's or THE PRIME OF MISS JEAN BRODIE's............and go back to helping your students pass examinations and matriculate to the next grade..........LEAVE POLITICS TO THE POLITICIANS.
JMJ posted at 3:20 pm on Wed, May 9, 2012.
Don't. Run as far and as fast from education as a career as you possibly can, most especially in Arizona. The leaders are frauds. There is no equal opportunity unless you are a personal friend of a superintendent. The less you know when you are then slected as a leader, the better. After all, you will be seen as an interloper if you try to actually accomplish anything. You might accidentally make others who don't know their elbow from their collective you-know-whats look bad. Oops. Too late. They already do look bad. Run. Far.