Elected and public safety employees get increases while double dipping. School teachers and other workers have had no cost-of-living increase. Who do you think they want to cut?
Anyone over 60 who goes to work full-time should have their pension stopped while they take a job some younger person needs.
One reason for pensions was to allow others to earn a living. Social Security was changed by those who want it to fail. The way it was in 1990 encouraged people to work part-time or not at all after they reached retirement age. Now some want judges to work to age 75. Who is going to keep them awake? They will be drawing Social Security with a $145K job.
Why do we seem to only be able to fill good paying jobs with older people? Would being in the clique of good ole boys have anything to do with not wanting to change things and give modern a chance?
Start with old-fashioned, non-lawyer-trained Justice of the Peace, with people like Russell Pearce working there part-time while he was in the Legislature.
Richard T. Tracy Sr.
Mesa
sockratties posted at 1:21 pm on Tue, Aug 28, 2012.
You're right Mr. Tracy…
Old folks are taking up jobs young people need. They should move over and let those who have been standing in line move to the front of the hog trough. Why should the new-gens have to earn their own niche in the workforce. They haven’t had to prove themselves before. Time to hand them another freebie, a job. And while they’re at it, wouldn’t it be better if all the geezers who are using scarce resources just keeled over and died. That would not only make more goodies available for the taking but it would redistribute the wealth. Why should those who have paid into the system reap the benefits? Move over old dogs, there’s some new dogs moving in!
VofReason posted at 1:20 pm on Wed, Aug 22, 2012.
Oh here is something, pensions should not be offered at all. Government employees of all types should be given good 401K matching, just like the majority of people who pay their salary - taxpayers. You will note that Califirnia at large and many cities throughout the US are on the verge of bankrupcy. Why? Pensions. Take them away, let people work as long as they want.
Arizona Willie posted at 10:23 pm on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
OK, onerebel, I was unaware you were referring to that one special retirement system. It doesn't seem obvious from your post.
onerebel posted at 9:02 pm on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
Willie, the Arizona State Retirement System for public employees is different . Once you retire from it you do not pay into the system again, thus you are basically hired back as a contract employee that does not pay into the system.
Arizona Willie posted at 4:10 pm on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
onerebel -- there are two things I resist strongly -- a sunburn and a job.
But, to the best of my understanding, if I were to re-enter the workforce ( shudder ) and take a job for something to do --- I would pay Social Security on those wages just like a younger person working next to me.
I would indeed be paying back into the pension system even though I was still getting my regular Social Security deposits every month.
It is even possible to pay in enough to raise your regular SS benefit payment.
But, personally, I don't think it is right for retirees who are not in financial difficulty to re-enter the work force. I think it is time for us geezers to move aside and perform the job(s) we are supposed to --- spending money and spoiling grand kids.
That is the proper function of seniors.
Unfortunately, many seniors have been scrooed when their company merged or did some other maneuver and cancelled out their pension obligations and walked away with the money.
And many people didn't make enough to put away money for retirement and SS is all they have to live on -- so they HAVE to work because their retirement isn't enough to live on.
I bet a reporter could get a big bunch of stories about retirement funds interviewing people working at Wal - Mart.
And, there a a LOT of people who didn't have defined benefit pension plans but put money in 401K's an other savings accounts and the financial meltdown hurt them badly. I've seen a lot of that in the retirement community where we live. People had to move in with their kids --- now that's a kick in the pants.
DIRECTLY attributable to deregulation.
Thanks Republicans.
onerebel posted at 1:22 pm on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
The reasoning behind hiring back older employees was sound. They have the experience, and skill however they do not pay back into the retirement system thus helping to fund others future pensions. That is a problem that needs to worked out.
chatmandu002 posted at 11:55 am on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
Richard,
There should be no mandatory retirement age. A worker should be allowed to work as long as they want. When the taxpayer has to support more than one pay check to the same person then there should be some restrictions. I have no problem with some one collecting Social Security and then letting them also have a private sector job. It's to bad that the work(less) ethic of our younger generations doesn't match the work(hard) ethic of our older generations.
Irons1 posted at 11:13 am on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
As usual, Leon, you are so full of it, your eyes must be brown
Leon Ceniceros posted at 10:33 am on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
Couldn't have said it better myself. The "pre-1960's" work ethic is long gone. Now we see it replaced by the Liberal-Democrat....."GIMME....GIMME....GIMME" non-or-little work ethic protected by Unions, Affirmative Action or "discrimination lawsuits". Being 67 yo, I can even remember when City Hall workers and all...all Government workers were efficient, courteous and hard working. I have to admit that 99% of all the Arizona Public Sector workers that I have come in contact with were great....but California was a different story. Everyone, everyone dreaded going to any Los Angeles or State of California Governmental Office...ever...after the Public Sector Workers Unions came into power. Leather shoes went into a file draw the moment they came to work in the morning and slippers or scuff went on until :30minutes before the work day ended. I saw it personally being a light-skinned Hispanic and "passing for White" = I was "dead meat on arrival" when walking into some of those offices. The so-called "quota hiring rules" went into effect in California in the 1970's and that was the end of the era of "work" ethic. My friends who lived and worked in Washington DC, Chicago and New York experienced the same thing. These people had a "job for life" whether they did a lick of work or not. If they were retiring and they had un-used sick days that wouldn't be reimbursed at Retirement....they just took Friday or Monday or both off as..."Sick Days". Their bosses were afraid to question them and be accused of being "homophobic or racist" and could kiss off any further promotions. And let's not leave out the "feminists" of the 1980's. Panty hose went out the door and "ladies" became "women". Heaven forbid you address any Public Sector "woman" as ..."Ma'am" or "Miss". You became a "chauvinist pig" from then on.
And you wonder why I and so many of the other "old geezer" commenters harken back to the 1950's...because it was ...."Camelot".
Arizona Willie posted at 9:57 am on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
And I, for one, have no problem with you double-dipping.
Your philosophy and politics though I disagree with wholeheartedly [smile]
We both agree and disagree as to the causes of the situation in education today.
I agree that the philosophy that Johnny had to be praised and couldn't be flunked because it would hurt his self-esteem is a bunch of bull-pucky.
The educational system is indeed to soft and touchy-feely in many regards.
However, Republicans / conservatives have constantly cut education funding, or tried to because they don't want to pay taxes for anything except defense. And they would rather borrow the money from China for that too rather than pay taxes.
Republicans / conservatives want to eliminate public schools so they can do away with paying taxes for schools. They want education to be privatized some stockholders can make money from education == having kids taught by the lowest bidders. Yes they would love nothing more than to have teachers begging for a job and submitting bids to get a job teaching so they could hire the one willing to work for the least.
mesateacher posted at 9:24 am on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
Don't blame older workers! They tend to come from a time when a strong work ethic was expected and nurtured in America. Hard work = rewards. Younger people, especially the current 20-30 year-olds, expect high pay, flexible work schedules, don't like to be corrected or reprimanded and in general have a poor work ethic. That's one reason employers like keeping them on. And that snarky comment about keeping older people awake: I'm 60 and I have far more energy than most 20 and 30 year-olds I know. They're soft, flabby, and even mentally weak.
Now, as to education: don't blame Republicans for the fact that our schools don't teach anymore. Blame liberals. The education system has been controlled by leftists for decades. Liberal teachers and principals outnumber conservatives 4 to 1. The reason education is so bad (well, one reason) is the leftist feel-good, touchy-feely, self-esteem garbage jammed down teacher's throats by liberal university professors. Conservatives generally get it: education is hard work, and everyone - teachers, principals, parents, gosh, even the students - must work hard. But this goes counter to too many liberal ideas. I've been in the trenches for 35 years and have seen the destructive influence of the NEA, AFT and other liberal leaning unions. Education is the US is terrible. But Americans don't care. Football, American Idol, drugs and rock-and-roll are more important.
And yes, I'm double-dipping. Nice gig. Get my retirement income (75% of my working salary) and a nice paycheck due to my "new" post-retirement job. Really annoys the youngsters right out of college who want me roll over and let them have my job. But I'm smarter than they are, work harder, and know how to dress. And I don't have tattoos, either.
Arizona Willie posted at 8:02 am on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
downtownresident -- your opinion of what is " ethical " is perhaps colored by your jealousy of someone who is getting a better deal than you.
Mandatory retirement ages are a good idea -- the problem is that in the last 30 years the educational system has done everything BUT educate and employers have a difficult time finding people with the ability to do the job.
So, in many cases, they beg the older workers to stay on because they can't find anyone qualified to replace them.
So what do you want -- an older worker staying in the job -- or another immigrant brought in to fill the void?
We need to get rid of the anti-education Republicans who have done nothing but CUT education budgets and who are trying to privatize public schools in order to make a profit from having the lowest bidder teaching kids.
downtownresident posted at 7:49 am on Sun, Aug 19, 2012.
You make a good point. The most obscene example of double dipping was the whale, former chief deputy of Joe Arpiao's corrupt squad of goons.
Unfortunately, it's legal and doesn't matter if it may be unethical, that doesn't bother these clowns. Any more than "side show Joe's" numerous court performances at tax payer's expense.
And finally, Russell Pearce isn't fit to slop the hogs on my farm.