A House panel voted Wednesday to require those seeking unemployment benefits to prove that they were fired and did not just quit.
The 6-3 vote by the Commerce Committee came after restaurant owners and some business groups complained that workers were abandoning their jobs and then trying to collect payments. The issue is significant because the tax that employers pay into the unemployment insurance fund is based on how often workers are laid off and eligible to get weekly benefits.
Rep. Debbie McCune Davis said HB 2147 could put employees who have legitimate claims into a situation where they are denied payments. She said shifting the burden of proof is not fair.
But Rep. Tom Forese, R-Chandler, was unapologetic for that change.
"I'm just shocked on how anti-business our country has become,'' he said.
"In the United States and Arizona, it's no longer what it used to be,'' Forese continued. "We nbeed to change the tide and start to fight for the employer.''
Under current rules, if there is a disagreement between the employer and the employee about the reason for the worker leaving, it is up to the employer to prove that the person left without good reason and is therefore ineligible for benefits, according to Tasya Peterson, spokeswoman for the state Department of Economic Security.
This measure would override that rule, saying if the employer provides documentation that a worker either resigned voluntarily or abandoned the job, then the burden of proving otherwise shifts to the worker.
But it also says that "documentation'' can include simply the employer's own verbal or written statements detailing the company's position on why the worker left. And it even permits as evidence an employer's attestation that the employee left on his or her own -- all of which then requires the worker to provide proof to the contrary.
McCune Davis said one flaw is that it is the employer who controls all the documents. She said that could leave the worker, who contends he or she did not voluntarily resign, with nothing to counter.
But Eric Emmert, a lobbyist for the East Valley Chambers of Commerce Alliance, said that does not necessarily mean the worker will be denied benefits.
"It is up to the Department (of Economic Security) to make the judgment call,'' he said. Emmert said the change simply requires those seeking payments to provide some proof rather than "relying on the business on the back end to fight it.''
The measure now goes to the full House. But even an anticipated affirmative vote there and concurrence of the Senate and governor might not resolve the issue.
McCune Davis said she believes that the U.S. Department of Labor, which helps the state pay for administering unemployment claims, may object to changing the burden of proof from employers to employees.
Peterson said DES staff already has submitted the proposal to federal officials who have determined that the measure in its current form, "is not in conformity with federal unemployment insurance law.'' She said it is her understanding that changes will be made to the measure on the House floor.
Arizona Willie posted at 9:13 am on Thu, Jan 31, 2013.
Well looks like we not only will get invading aliens forced upon us and allowed to take our jobs --- workers will have to prove the employer fired them ( what about downsizing / layoffs? ) and of course the worker will NOT be given a statement by his employer saying he was let go. The employer will just quit paying the person driving them to find another job and since the employee leaves without papers proving he was fired / laid off he won't be able to get unemployment.
EVERY LEGAL WORKER IN ARIZONA SHOULD IMMEDIATELY START MOVING out OF ARIZONA.
Leave these a-holes with nothing but invading aliens -- that's what they are going to wind up with anyway.
Arizona Willie posted at 9:14 am on Thu, Jan 31, 2013.
Do NOT train a replacement. Take a vacation, go to another state and find a job and then just disappear and leave them holding the bag.
They deserve it.
Arizona Willie posted at 9:17 am on Thu, Jan 31, 2013.
When Arizona employes fire / lay off and illegal they don't have to pay unemployment which is another reason they want them.
Now they want to change the laws so they can scroo legal employees the same way they scroo illegals.
FLEE workers of Arizona FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES.
Deddzone posted at 9:49 am on Thu, Jan 31, 2013.
I'm quite certain that LEGAL employees are capable of scamming the system. Could the problem be that so many of these jobs are underpaid and lack healthcare? I'm certainly not suggesting that LEGAL born in the US citizens should ever take unemployment simply because they don't like their job.
Let's look at the whole picture. Arizona is lagging in pay for low-wage jobs, as compared to the rest of the country.
Deddzone posted at 10:07 am on Thu, Jan 31, 2013.
I'm guessing some do not understand how unemployment works...one has to have LEGAL documentation---SS number and be paying into the system. Only those who would fake docments could attempt to do this and that is illegal.
It's a well-known fact that employers who hire illegals pay cash. So, how can an illegal alien get unemployment from the state or otherwise if they were paid cash by their employer and not in the system?
Arizona Willie posted at 11:03 am on Thu, Jan 31, 2013.
Deddzone, it doesn't make any difference how an employer pays his employees, LEGALLY he is supposed to provide unemployment insurance for all employees.
The method of payment is irrelevant.
But, that's one reason employers like invading aliens. They can get away without paying unemployment insurance on them and, when they lay them off they can't collect -- legally. Illegally collecting is another matter. Most of the invading aliens have also used either a fake Social Security number or have stolen a complete identity. Which of course is another crime we are going to overlook. Supposedly in order to qualify for the new immigration rules, the invading alien must have a clean record. Well since they have all commited a crime entering the country illegally -- NONE of them have a clean record. Most have also committed the crime of using a fraudulent Social Security number which is another crime which will be ignored. Even those who have stolen someone's identity and used their Social Security number and perhaps even charged stuff to the person whose identity they stole -- ALL crimes by invading aliens will be ignored.
ezaz posted at 1:30 pm on Thu, Jan 31, 2013.
I would be OK with this adjustment if the rules around unemployment claims did not completely disregard full commission employees. If a 100% commission salesperson is not making enough money to survive they may have no choice but to quit their job. These salespeople currently get denied unemployment along with all other people quitting their job. Many companies don't care enough about low-performing salespeople to fire them so they can get unemployment. So, they are left looking for new opportunities while they struggle to survive on little to nothing. These people and other starving under- and self-employed are not reported in unemployment statistics but I suspect they would double the unemployment percentages if unemployement rules permitted their legitimate claims.
valleynative posted at 2:11 pm on Thu, Jan 31, 2013.
I'm always amazed and disappointed by the number of people who don't understand how the legislature works.
Just because a bill has been approved by one committee, that doesn't mean that it's law, and doesn't mean that it ever will be law.
This is unlikely to pass. Relax.
TruthSeeker posted at 2:15 pm on Thu, Jan 31, 2013.
When I've left a job, they had me write a letter of resignation or have me sign paperwork to indicate I left of my own accord or else they threaten to withhold my final paycheck. Sort of like blackmail to cover themselves.
loose stool posted at 5:12 am on Fri, Feb 1, 2013.
Most illegals will just steal another identity and get another job. This way they collect unemployment and get a pay check, as well as the free government hand outs. Wouldnt surprize me if most of them collect a few unemployment checks under differnt names.
Arizona Willie posted at 7:53 am on Fri, Feb 1, 2013.
ls: I don't think very many illegals have the cojones to apply for unemployment. They don't have a valid Social Security number and would be risking deportation -- if the government gave a darn.
I'm sure somewhere in the U.S.A there are some invaders who are claiming SS and some who claim under more than one name. But I doubt there are very many.
The bill is all about letting Arizona employers treat LEGAL American workers the same way they treat illegals ... they don't want to pay unemployment insurance on LEGAL employees either.
If this bill makes it into law, the next step will be to remove the minimum wage for Arizona workers and then to abolish the OSHA laws in Arizona.
Arizona, the China wannabe.
Bingo6 posted at 12:55 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.
So, the lawyers are going to love this. They will happily represent a so-called fired employee who in the end will sue his/her employer for not providing proof of termination in what to prove to the state that they were fired which usually disqualifies them from unemployment anyways. Then legal fees to the employer will most certainly outweigh their cost of paying their cost of unemployment insurance contributions.
Another bit of tea party nonsense.