A federal appeals court will hear arguments Friday of whether Arizona voters stepped over the line by denying bail to illegal immigrants charged with certain crimes.
Cecillia Wang of the American Civil Liberties Union contends that keeping people locked up before their trial based solely on their immigration status amounts to punishment. She also said it presumes, improperly, that someone not in this country legally is automatically a flight risk without considering other factors.
She wants the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to declare the 2006 voter-approved constitutional amendment invalid.
But attorney Tim Casey said the voters are entitled to conclude that those accused of certain offenses should not be able to get out on bail to ensure they will show up in court. For example, he said, someone who is charged with a felony while already out on bail while awaiting trial, must remain locked up.
And Casey, who is defending the Maricopa County officials who were the first to implement the change, said considering the fact that the person broke the law by being here illegally is no different.
Wang has to take her case to the appellate court because U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton rejected her request to void the law.
Under the terms of Proposition 100, bail is unavailable to those charged with "serious felony offenses'' if they are in this country illegally and if "the proof is evidence or the presumption great'' that the person is guilty of the offense charged.
It was crafted by former state Senate President Russell Pearce -- at the time a state representative -- who argued that anyone who has crossed the border illegally probably has few ties to this country. That, he said, makes them at greater risk of fleeing before trial.
Wang said, though, some of Pearce's comments show that the real goal was to punish illegal immigrants.
Among the comments she cited were that Pearce said wanted to "end this (federal) system of catch and release'' and that the measure was one of several to "make sure there are consequences and punishments'' attached to being an illegal immigrant.
Bolton, in her ruling, conceded the measure may have been motivated by a desire by some to punish people for past crimes, that being illegal immigration.
"But there is also evidence that legislators considered the issue of flight risk,'' the judge wrote. Anyway, Bolton said, even if some lawmakers were pushing the measure to control illegal immigration, that is not terribly important as it was the voters of Arizona who had the final say.
Wang said one problem with the measure is it imposes a one-size-fits-all approach.
She said judges already were able take into account all factors in considering whether a person is a flight risk, including legal presence in the country. So if someone were a recent arrival with no ties to the community, Wang said a judge had the power to deny bail.
"On the other hand, if the judge has someone before them someone who entered the U.S. on a visa 25 years ago and just never left, and their entire family is U.S. citizens and has had the same job for 25 years and lived in Phoenix for 25 years ... and he's only charged with a minor offense, then the judge should be able to make her own decision about the bail,'' Wang said.
She acknowledged that Proposition 100 applies only to what the Legislature defined as "serious'' offenses, specifically those that fall into certain punishment categories. But Wang said that includes many non-violent crimes, including shoplifting or theft of more than $3,000, unlawful copying of sound recordings, computer tampering and certain identity theft offenses. And she said those convicted of many of these offenses are eligible for probation.
Casey said that's irrelevant to the legal issue of the ability of voters to decide which crimes are not bailable.
"If you're the victim of a crime, then you have the right to ensure that the accused attends trial and, if there is in fact a conviction, that sentencing is served,'' he said.
In her ruling, Bolton also rejected Wang's contention that the measure violates the Eighth Amendment ban on "excessive bail.''
The judge pointed out that nothing in that federal constitutional provision requires that bail be available for all offenses. And Bolton said the Eighth Amendment does not preclude lawmakers -- or the voters -- from declaring certain offenses non-bailable.
BajaRat posted at 6:05 pm on Wed, Oct 17, 2012.
Cynthia WANG, eh? [beam]
Illegals should never be granted bail under any circumstances since their propensity to break laws is legend and chances of them fleeing are high. The stinking ACLU needs to deal with issues concerning citizens, not a bunch of border-jumping parasites.
Juggernaut8000 posted at 6:07 pm on Wed, Oct 17, 2012.
I wanna know what bleeding heart, illegal loving traitor who wants this repealed!
samkat posted at 6:24 pm on Wed, Oct 17, 2012.
Jug: Obviously the ACLU and all of the illegal alien supporters. It is a shame that illegals have more rights than citizens these days.
wigglwagon posted at 6:52 pm on Wed, Oct 17, 2012.
Embezzlers are not allowed to keep on embezzling until their day in court. Why are criminal immigrants allowed to keep practicing their crimes? Just letting them out on bail is like leaving embezzlers on the job with access to steal even more. Illegal immigrants should have to await their day in court in their own country.
It does not matter what you call them. According to my Webster dictionary, they are criminals.
phxvato1202 posted at 6:56 pm on Wed, Oct 17, 2012.
bajarat---Tom horne broke the law with his campaign finances, this is an issue that concerns citizens, why is horne not in jail?
racistsnut8000----justice is what the aclu wants, who made you judge and jury and don't be as ignorant as you always seem to be and just because someone wants justice in this state does not make them a traitor just like all other people like you are racists like you just because they are probably white tea party idiots.
jug----don't be such a hypocrite, the people of this state also voted to approve medical marijuana but brewer and horne don't want to implement this law that the voters approved, what a hypocrite you are, is there justice there?
The three of you have one motive and that is hate because you only climb aboard the laws that suit your needs as in I can hate legally cause we voted for that but nothing else matters as long as we racists get justice against all illegals but when the everyday citizen votes a law in that they don't like then they are livid. Oh and by the way i voted against the medical marijuana bill.
BajaRat posted at 9:11 pm on Wed, Oct 17, 2012.
Hey PhxTaco: "Hate," eh? What, are Americans supposed to LIKE watching their country being unlawfully infested by a bunch of third world leeches, many of whom rob, steal, pillage, rape, reproduce like rabbits, and murder? Are you daft? Give me a break! Some things are simply intolerable for obvious reasons.
Juggernaut8000 posted at 10:52 pm on Wed, Oct 17, 2012.
illegalvato,
I voted for marijuana to be legalized and think it should be across the board...and what did my comment have to do with that you moron?
And can you explain why you want criminal illegals released? Or do you just want your family and friends to be released from the clink so you can commit more crimes with them? It is not hispanic against white you racist fool. It is American against those here illegally.
Masterrogue666 posted at 5:28 am on Thu, Oct 18, 2012.
"Bolton, in her ruling, conceded the measure may have been motivated by a desire by some to punish people for past crimes, that being illegal immigration." -- Knock, knock. Hello, anyone there? If they REMAIN in the USA, then it can't be called "past" crimes. Instead, it's ONGOING CRIMES. These people are CRIMINALS, and it's time they be treated that way.
Masterrogue666 posted at 5:36 am on Thu, Oct 18, 2012.
phxvato'1202s only argument is to call someone a racist, even when there is NO PROOF. I'd like to see a REASONABLE argument, not the same old tired "race card" argument.
generalno posted at 7:31 am on Thu, Oct 18, 2012.
We already know Bolton leans left. And in keeping with its communist foundation, the ACLU leans hard left. So the outcome is predictable. But these folks must be stupid to claim an illegal alien won't flee immediately after making bail. Last I heard, more than 80 percent of ordinary illegal aliens skip their deportation hearings. In view of that outrageous statistic, it's obvious that every illegal alien also charged with another crime will flee straight from the courthouse door. And by the way, Bolton & Wang should be made aware that none of these scofflaws are ever seen again. They simply change identities and move on.
Arizona Willie posted at 7:32 am on Thu, Oct 18, 2012.
Masterrogue, the race card is the ONLY card they have.
Invading aliens are guilty of ( usually ) multiple crimes -- invading the country and identity theft are committed by virtually 100% of invaders in order to come here and a steal a job from a legal worker.
EVERY SINGLE JOB TAKEN BY AN ILLEGAL WAS STOLEN FROM A LEGAL WORKER.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 9:05 am on Thu, Oct 18, 2012.
What kind of America are we living in?
There are American GI's and Marines being killed every other day in Afghanistan..."PROTECTING"....it's...."BORDERS"...and we have a Democrat President in the White House (that's if he isn't flying all over American caging votes) giving..........2-3-4 MILLION MEXICAN ILLEGAL ALIENS = WORK PERMITS.
FOLKS, IT'S TIME TO TAKE BACK THE WHITE HOUSE BEFORE OBAMA TURNS IT INTO .......LA CASA BLANCA.
rked posted at 9:51 am on Thu, Oct 18, 2012.
"She also said it presumes, improperly, that someone not in this country legally is automatically a flight risk without considering other factors."
Really...!!!---So this Idiotic Statement Proves that LibTARDS possess Not even 1 iota of Common Sense...!!!---cuz Of Course an ILLEGAL Criminal is NOT going to report back for Trial IF given Bail......!!!--Sheesh, that IS a No Brainer, folks!!!!!
ZOO001 posted at 10:59 am on Thu, Oct 18, 2012.
1) Back in 2004 when the mighty Bob Mohan was still on KFNX radio in Phoenix, he received a call on the air from a father in tears. His son was a student at NAU in Flagstaff. A drunk illegal Mexican ran his car over the curb onto the sidewalk and hit the man's son, turning him into a paraplegic. The driver ran from the scene and escaped back into Mexico. The father's hopes and dreams for his son were now changed into constant care for a 'rag doll' with the full knowledge his son, although crushed, would outlive him.
2) In 2006, a 21 year-old man was sitting in the passenger seat of a car at the stop light at 67th Avenue and Peoria in Phoenix. Two Mexican-driven vehicles raced through the intersection shooting at each other, and the 21 year-old was shot and killed instantly. The shooter's mother, as disclosed in a follow-up news story, raised the money and sent her son back to Mexico to escape arrest and prosecution.
bartlebee posted at 11:33 am on Thu, Oct 18, 2012.
phxvato1202,
The people who speak out in support of illegal aliens are the true racists.
mlimberg posted at 1:28 pm on Thu, Oct 18, 2012.
Things will change in this Country, and people like Cynthia WANG will wish they kept their noses on their faces....
The rule of Law will again be the rule of the Land in the USA!
Cas Lee posted at 7:35 pm on Sun, Oct 28, 2012.
Hello, my fellow American voters!
I watched the Oct. 3rd, 11th, 16th, and 22nd debates.
1st Romney-Obama debate covered 7 topics: jobs; budget deficit/debt; social security/entitlements; federal gov’t economic regulation and role; healthcare; partisan gridlock.
2nd Romney-Obama debate covered 11 topics: college graduate jobs; gas prices; taxes; equal pay; Bush policies; Obama’s record; illegal immigrants; Libya; assault weapons; jobs; candidate misperceptions.
3rd Romney-Obama debate covered 10 topics: Libya; Syria; Egypt; U.S. world role; military spending; Israel; Iran; Afghanistan; China; U.S. national security threats.
Ryan-Biden debate covered 10 topics: Libya; Iran; economy; medicare/social security/entitlements; tax reform/spending/budget cuts; military policy; Afghanistan; Syria; abortion; negative campaign tactics.
Romney and Ryan won all 4 debates, although Obama improved some in the 2nd debate and Romney slightly took the win both in the 2nd and 3rd debates.
In the 3rd debate (unlike in prior debates), Obama reflected his weakness and disrespect by interrupting Romney a lot and using too many “one-line quips” to try to denigrate Romney.
Ryan won despite Biden’s consistently rude behavior during the debate (often interrupted Ryan, laughed when Ryan talked, pointed his finger). Biden’s tactics to evade issues/truth disrespected Americans interested in facts, figures, forecasts, and solutions for real people with real problems.
Romney and Ryan won with substance, directness, integrity, respect, clarity, facts, commitment, inspiration, credibility, and leadership.
As an INDEPENDENT female feminist (egalitarian) voter, I support the Romney/Ryan ticket.
Romney and Ryan, with their no-nonsense and methodic approach to solving America’s problems, are the best persons in terms of qualifications and character to lead our country and make life better for all Americans.
I am inspired by Romney/Ryan, and I hope that you are too!
Best regards,
Cas Lee
Cas Lee posted at 7:47 pm on Sun, Oct 28, 2012.
Hello, my fellow American voters!
I watched the Oct. 3rd, 11th, 16th, and 22nd debates.
1st Romney-Obama debate covered 7 topics: jobs; budget deficit/debt; social security/entitlements; federal gov’t economic regulation and role; healthcare; partisan gridlock.
2nd Romney-Obama debate covered 11 topics: college graduate jobs; gas prices; taxes; equal pay; Bush policies; Obama’s record; illegal immigrants; Libya; assault weapons; jobs; candidate misperceptions.
3rd Romney-Obama debate covered 10 topics: Libya; Syria; Egypt; U.S. world role; military spending; Israel; Iran; Afghanistan; China; U.S. national security threats.
Ryan-Biden debate covered 10 topics: Libya; Iran; economy; medicare/social security/entitlements; tax reform/spending/budget cuts; military policy; Afghanistan; Syria; abortion; negative campaign tactics.
Romney and Ryan won all 4 debates, although Obama improved some in the 2nd debate and Romney slightly took the win both in the 2nd and 3rd debates.
In the 3rd debate (unlike in prior debates), Obama reflected his weakness and disrespect by interrupting Romney a lot and using too many “one-line quips” to try to denigrate Romney.
Ryan won despite Biden’s consistently rude behavior during the debate (often interrupted Ryan, laughed when Ryan talked, pointed his finger). Biden’s tactics to evade issues/truth disrespected Americans interested in facts, figures, forecasts, and solutions for real people with real problems.
Romney and Ryan won with substance, directness, integrity, respect, clarity, facts, commitment, inspiration, credibility, and leadership.
As an INDEPENDENT female feminist (egalitarian) voter, I support the Romney/Ryan ticket.
Romney and Ryan, with their no-nonsense and methodic approach to solving America’s problems, are the best persons in terms of qualifications and character to lead our country and make life better for all Americans.
I am inspired by Romney/Ryan, and I hope that you are too!
Best regards,
Cas Lee